[raydan]

So you're responsible for everything that Obama's done, Bart.


No, no... don't try to weasel your way out of by by saying you didn't vote for the guy. Doesn't matter, he was freely elected. You made your choice and are reaping the fruits of your choice.





Move away from the Neg Rep button.

[BRAH]

Goober911 Goober911:

BRAH BRAH:

Fuck Hamas, as the Egyptian News Anchors pointed out they don't care about the Palestinians because they're hypocrites and cowards.

And there you are wrong.
Israel has to be coerced and or forced to the peace table.
This problem, if you wish to minimize it, will not go away.
Eventually more Govts will turn against Israel.
As the killing go on, as Israel takes more land, as the killing goes on.
And it can be laid mainly at the feet of Israel.
They divided and conquered.
Abbas is their last chance and they deliberately undermined him.

I based my comment agreeing with what the Eygptian News Anchors said, so in other words you're saying they're wrong?

desertdude desertdude:

BRAH BRAH:

Fuck Hamas, as the Egyptian News Anchors pointed out they don't care about the Palestinians because they're hypocrites and cowards.

That might be the case or so some believe but Israels commitment to peace is also shady to say the least, just scroll back the pages of this thread and you see Yahoo himself admitting how he has sabotaged previous peace talks.

When Yitzhak Rabin was assinated that set back the peace process for possibly years upon years.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

desertdude desertdude:

So collective punishment is fine by you, got it.

No, it is not collective punishment, it is collective responsibility.

The German people didn't mind much when Hitler's armies had seized much of the land and industrial wealth of Europe and in 1940-1941 the German people were quite pleased with their leader, their country, and themselves.

They also didn't mind much when German aircraft bombed Rotterdam after a ceasefire had been agreed to and they didn't mind when German aircraft bombed Coventry, a town with no military targets at all.

Those people then bore the collective responsibility of their decision to empower the Nazi Party as their leadership.

Ditto in Gaza.

Mind you, I'd feel different if we were talking about people in a country that was ruled by a dictatorship. Then I'd agree with you that the accountability should be limited to the dictator to the best degree possible.

But the people in Gaza freely elected Hamas in an election where UN monitors declared the results fair.

They made their choices and these are the fruits of their choices.

No elections since then
And times have changed.
Taking out Hamas leads to significant innocents being killed.
Is that acceptable over the long term?
We could be talking a decade or longer.
By then a Palestinian state will not exist.

[desertdude]

And who was that assassinated Rabin ? A right wing ultranationalist, similar type of crud is now in power with the coalition govt

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

So you're responsible for everything that Obama's done, Bart.

You're being snarky, but you're right.

I am responsible for what he's done and for what he's doing. That's why I donate to the NRA and to selected conservative candidates (which includes a couple Democrats).

The USA is bearing the responsibilty of this assclown's actions (and inactions) in the South China Sea, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and most importantly we bear the responsibility of 'the most transparent administration ever' as he uses his legions of law enforcement minions against US citizens everywhere from the Bundy Ranch to the IRS offices in Ohio to the unenforced border with Mexico. Oh, and let's just add the resurgence of the Cold War with nuclear-armed Russian bombers flying just 200km from my house because Obama's spinelessness and overt willingness to betray the defense capabilities of this nation to Russia have emboldened Putin to push us around.

My wife just got over suffering from a strain of Latin American shingles that didn't exist in the USA before last year. It came in with unscreened illegal immigrants likely from Honduras. So, yes, I'm being held accountable for this pathetic loser's actions.

And the whole country is suffering because of him and you know what?

We deserve it.

[desertdude]

raydan raydan:

So you're responsible for everything that Obama's done, Bart.


No, no... don't try to weasel your way out of by by saying you didn't vote for the guy. Doesn't matter, he was freely elected. You made your choice and are reaping the fruits of your choice.

A very valid and good point, barts attempt to disguise unjust collective punishment into some kind of responsibility is flawed at best.

And what choices did they have, the same old people who had achieved nothing in the past decades or maybe someone new as they campaigned under the banner of change and reform. Hamas won 44% of vote, with fatah trailing at 41%. Hardly a landside by any means.

You think if elections were held again today Hamas would win ? So trying to label this as some kind of punishment for voting Hamas is non sensical to say the least

[raydan]

Sorry DD, actually I agree with Bart... even though I was being snarky, as Bart would put it.


We've voted PQ here in Québec quite a few times, a Separatist party. If we had separated, who's fault do you think it would have been?


EDIT: There should be a referendum every time Hamas wants to launch rockets at Israel.

[Goober911]

BRAH BRAH:

Goober911 Goober911:

BRAH BRAH:

Fuck Hamas, as the Egyptian News Anchors pointed out they don't care about the Palestinians because they're hypocrites and cowards.

And there you are wrong.
Israel has to be coerced and or forced to the peace table.
This problem, if you wish to minimize it, will not go away.
Eventually more Govts will turn against Israel.
As the killing go on, as Israel takes more land, as the killing goes on.
And it can be laid mainly at the feet of Israel.
They divided and conquered.
Abbas is their last chance and they deliberately undermined him.

I based my comment agreeing with what the Eygptian News Anchors said, so in other words you're saying they're wrong?

desertdude desertdude:

BRAH BRAH:

Fuck Hamas, as the Egyptian News Anchors pointed out they don't care about the Palestinians because they're hypocrites and cowards.

That might be the case or so some believe but Israels commitment to peace is also shady to say the least, just scroll back the pages of this thread and you see Yahoo himself admitting how he has sabotaged previous peace talks.

When Yitzhak Rabin was assinated that set back the peace process for possibly years upon years.

Nope, you are.

[Goober911]

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/1 ... ?hpt=hp_c1
The former Israeli Intelligence Minister called for negotiations with Hamas in an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday.

“Hamas is a very bad option, undoubtedly. But there are worse options than Hamas,” Efraim Halevy, former Mossad chief, said.

“And we already know what some of them might be, especially one of them: the ISIS – which is operating now in the northern Iraq and central Iraq – has its tentacles in the Gaza Strip too.”

Halevy said that just as in Europe, ISIS is recruiting in Gaza.

An Israeli cease-fire on Tuesday lasted six short hours; the Hamas rocket fire never stopped, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered that attacks on Gaza be intensified.

It is “inconvenient politically,” Halevy said, for both Israel and Hamas to admit that they negotiate. But the truth, he said, is that they have already been doing it for years.

“We have coined a new method of diplomacy in the twenty-first century: we don’t meet with them, we don’t talk to them, but we listen to them. Each one listens to the other side. Somehow in the end an understanding is crafted.”

“We have had several rounds with Hamas in recent years, and the previous rounds ended up in agreements … arrangements, as it was called – ‘arrangements,’ not even agreements.”

“But in effect it was a negotiation between us and Hamas. When you had the deal on the kidnapped soldier Shalit, we negotiated with Hamas.”

The political inconvenience Prime Minister Netanyahu faces was exemplified by the actions of two people in his own government on Tuesday.

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said Israel should go “all the way” – re-occupy Gaza – and Netanyahu was forced to fire Deputy Defense Minister Danny Danon for “fiercely attack[ing] the leadership of the country.”

“The Prime Minister wants to lead Hamas into a position where they will accept the cease-fire,” Halevy said.

“I do not detect for the moment any great appetite on the part of the Prime Minister to go at least in the immediate future into anything beyond air attacks and maybe here or there a ground skirmish.”

As for the dismissal of Danon, Halevy said he believes it was “long in the works.”

“I think what he did today was intolerable – to stand up and to criticize the Prime Minister in a time of war, the way he did. It’s something that cannot be accepted in any way.”

Prime Minister Netanyahu, he said, wants to leave a “cowed Hamas, a weakened Hamas” in power in Gaza.

“Israel has no appetite to take over responsibility for the population in Gaza.”

[desertdude]

raydan raydan:

Sorry DD, actually I agree with Bart... even though I was being snarky, as Bart would put it.


We've voted PQ here in Québec quite a few times, a Separatist party. If we had separated, who's fault do you think it would have been?


EDIT: There should be a referendum every time Hamas wants to launch rockets at Israel.

You know what they say even a broken clock is also twice everyday

[desertdude]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

We deserve it.

Well then stop crying about Obama in every second post you make and what you are going through pales in comparison to what they are. and take it like a man as you expect the population of Gaza to do.

[GreenTiger]

Correct me if I am wrong and I sincerely hope that I am, but I am given to understand that the Egyptian government attempted to broker a cease fire that the Israel may well have accepted but Hamas turned it down.

I'm aware that the situation is quite complex and that Israel can be a pain in the ass to deal with {even with groups they like such as the United States}, but still if this is true all you will get is more blood in your effort to prove you point of honour.

[BRAH]

Something to consider.

[desertdude]

BRAH BRAH:

Something to consider.

Now consider this, 100% of the population is being bombarded, there are no bomb shelters, there are no sirens to warn of imminent doom, at best the famous knock on the roof, which gives you between 45 secs and three minutes to get away or be blown to smithereens and losing your house and any worldy possessions you might have.

Also In Israels case 99% chance the missle wont hit anything and with puny warheads maybe damage a wall or car, but in Gaza's case you know its going to it and there is going to be a pretty big boom


And as always the voice of reason, Jon Stewart

[BRAH]

desertdude desertdude:

BRAH BRAH:

Something to consider.

Now consider this, 100% of the population is being bombarded, there are no bomb shelters, there are no sirens to warn of imminent doom, at best the famous knock on the roof, which gives you between 45 secs and three minutes to get away or be blown to smithereens and losing your house and any worldy possessions you might have.

Also In Israels case 99% chance the missle wont hit anything and with puny warheads maybe damage a wall or car, but in Gaza's case you know its going to it and there is going to be a pretty big boom


And as always the voice of reason, Jon Stewart

So Israel should just bend over and let Hamas fuck them in the ass without responding because they have the better technology?