[Delwin]

The other point that kind of boggles me is that if Putin needs a port to export his Gas to Europe, why not just give it to him ? Is this the real reason for the conflict ? Can't they carve him a path to Europe for his gas, make the Russians happy, give the Ukrainians a royalty for transport, and get the Europeans their gas at the same time ?

No, it can't only be about commerce, otherwise this would be solved. This is about expansionism.

[andyt]

Agreed. Putin wants to restore the glory of Russia. It doesn't hurt that this all plays well with Russians, keep him popular. If Russians turn against him, he's toast.

[Canadian_Mind]

America is England, Obama is Chamberlain (and just as well supported by his countrymen), Russia is Germany, Putin is Hitler (and also just as well supported by his countrymen), China is Russia (they get along just as much as NAZI Germany and the USSR did in 1939), Ukraine is Austria, Belarus is Czechoslovakia, Lithuania is Poland, and oddly enough Prussia is still Prussia.

Anyone who doesn't see the parallels at this point should have a few detailed history books tied to their ankles and tossed into the North Atlantic.

Given the recent redeployment of our jets in Europe, I'd guess someone has at least noticed the Lithuania-Danzig Corridor parallel

[Zipperfish]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

America is England, Obama is Chamberlain (and just as well supported by his countrymen), Russia is Germany, Putin is Hitler (and also just as well supported by his countrymen), China is Russia (they get along just as much as NAZI Germany and the USSR did in 1939), Ukraine is Austria, Belarus is Czechoslovakia, Lithuania is Poland, and oddly enough Prussia is still Prussia.

Anyone who doesn't see the parallels at this point should have a few detailed history books tied to their ankles and tossed into the North Atlantic.

Given the recent redeployment of our jets in Europe, I'd guess someone has at least noticed the Lithuania-Danzig Corridor parallel

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes."

-- Mark Twain

[Winnipegger]

The important part of a "Wild Weasel" is its HARM missiles. Could a UAV carry them; or more precisely, UCAV? Would a IAI Eitan have sufficient avionics?

[martin14]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

America is England, Obama is Chamberlain (and just as well supported by his countrymen), Russia is Germany, Putin is Hitler (and also just as well supported by his countrymen), China is Russia (they get along just as much as NAZI Germany and the USSR did in 1939), Ukraine is Austria, Belarus is Czechoslovakia, Lithuania is Poland, and oddly enough Prussia is still Prussia.

Anyone who doesn't see the parallels at this point should have a few detailed history books tied to their ankles and tossed into the North Atlantic.

Given the recent redeployment of our jets in Europe, I'd guess someone has at least noticed the Lithuania-Danzig Corridor parallel

Not bad.
I would change it to Belarus = Austria, Ukraine = CZ.
Belarus is already a puppet, at least there was an argument over Czechoslovakia.


The Euros are terrified, and they have no idea what to do.

Can't get the populations motivated for war, the people want no part of this.

OTOH, a full embargo of Russia is going to hurt a LOT of the EU, and losing that
gas does mean people will be freezing to death this winter.

It also means plunging these economies back into a big recession, and Europe is
only now just climbing out of the last one. Except Italy, of course.

The Russians are more used to privations than Western Europe, so if it comes to a choice,
Putin will have no problem pushing his own people pretty hard.

If it can be proven that the Russians have sent 1,000 troops into Ukraine,
NATO should send in a brigade.
Russians only respond to strength.
I also think the Ukrainians needs to get a lot more serious about mobilizing
their own resources.


Problem is, the West is ready to fold on this one, and I think in the end,
Ukraine will be sacrificed for 'peace in our time'.
Won't last much longer than the last time.

[Zipperfish]

"You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war."--Winston Churchill to Chamberlain.

Read tht earlier somewhere. sorry if it was here and I've just repeated it.

[Thanos]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Quote:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."



So, what are you gonna do when the President breaks the Constitution? Which comes first ... loyalty to your Republic or to your Commander in Chief?

First you should take the ten seconds out to see if he actually broke the law, and then have enough patience to allow a proper due-process investigation to see if there's any substance to the accusation. This might be the wise thing to do because there's always a good chance that the guy doing the rant on hate-radio or the blogger who keeps photoshopping any image that crosses his screen might not be telling the entire truth.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Thanos Thanos:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Quote:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."



So, what are you gonna do when the President breaks the Constitution? Which comes first ... loyalty to your Republic or to your Commander in Chief?

First you should take the ten seconds out to see if he actually broke the law, and then have enough patience to allow a proper due-process investigation to see if there's any substance to the accusation. This might be the wise thing to do because there's always a good chance that the guy doing the rant on hate-radio or the blogger who keeps photoshopping any image that crosses his screen might not be telling the entire truth.

Wait, you mean people actually lie to further a political agenda?

[Thanos]

It was always kind of amusing when it was done just to score political points. It's not as much fun when it's designed to get nutcases to make death threats or to try to trigger a civil war. That's the unfortunate difference between the 1990's and today.

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

"You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war."--Winston Churchill to Chamberlain.

Read tht earlier somewhere. sorry if it was here and I've just repeated it.

2 pages back! Yesterday afternoon! You having an Alzheimers' flare up again?

[Zipperfish]

There you go, Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

In Whitehorse, and the internet is slowwww, so couldn't be bothered to look. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[andyt]

Putin has congratulated the rebels for their success in "Novorossyia."

[Zipperfish]

He's only talking to himself now. He has no credibility on the diplomatic front.

[andyt]

Just a few days ago, Poroshenko was saying things looked good for a settlement with Putin. It's the usual pattern, say Putin is a liar and can't be trusted, then a few days later have a meeting and say things look good. Poroshenko can't do much else, since he's overmatched. As for us, I don't know if it's worth going to war with Russia over this. Unlike WWII that everybody likes to dredge up, nukes change the pic. What starts out as a limited engagement can easily turn really ugly by the losing side.

And of course the West has no stomach for it. We've gotten too comfortable. Maybe better to just draw a line at the Nato countries and enforce that. Problem is, give it enough time with no further moves by Russia, and we'll relax again, and then Russia can start nibbling at the edges again.

Maybe a full economic boycott would work. But jeez, Europe would sure suffer for that, and if it collapses Russia again, that could also get really ugly with all those nukes floating around. Probably a core of hard cases around Putin ready to push the button if things don't look good for them.