[Jabberwalker]

I'm in awe of a navy that is allowed to acquire new ships.

[DrCaleb]

$1:

Rebels lay mines along route to MH17 crash site, forcing investigators to turn back, Ukraine official says

DONETSK, Ukraine — International observers turned back Wednesday after making another attempt to reach the site where Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 went down in eastern Ukraine, and a government official said the area near the zone had been mined by pro-Russian separatists who control it.

Observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe set out in two vehicles — without frustrated crash investigators from the Netherlands who have been trying to reach the site for four days.

The OSCE observers headed back to the city of Donetsk after discussions with rebels on the city’s outskirts not long after starting what would have been a two-hour journey to the site.

That means that almost two weeks after the July 17 disaster, safety concerns and hindrance from the separatists who control the area are still obstructing access to the site. Foreign governments whose citizens died have complained the site is still not secured and some human remains have not been recovered. International observers say wreckage has been cut, moved or otherwise tampered with.

Government security spokesman Andriy Lysenko added to those concerns Wednesday by saying separatists “have mined the approaches to this area. This makes the work of the international experts impossible.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/30 ... cial-says/

[Gunnair]

I'm in awe, having read some other sites and their comments, how many people are calling this a false flag op by the US using the missing MH 370...

[BartSimpson]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I'd like to know how the fight in Ukraine is going. PF, barring direct involvement from Russia, how long until the rebels finally capitulate?

There are no rebels. They are Russian Soviet regulars in Russian Soviet uniforms who have removed their national flag and unit patches from their uniforms.

[Zipperfish]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I'm in awe, having read some other sites and their comments, how many people are calling this a false flag op by the US using the missing MH 370...

Me too. The Russians had an excuse back in the Soviet days, when they only had access to state-run media. Nowadays they have access to the same infomration we do, yet behave as if they only had access to state-run media.

Maybe it's human nature. Or maybe it's the internet age--a massive glut of data makes it possible to justify almost any belief, and it is difficult to determine authentic infomration from meaningless data.

[andyt]

Well just look at the bs being spread in the post just above yours.

[Winnipegger]

andyt andyt:

Well just look at the bs being spread in the post just above yours.

Putin already admitted that many of those organizing "rebels" in Crimea were Russian soldiers who removed their patches. And the leader of the Donetsk rebels is from Russia. PostFactum posted pictures of some dead rebels who carried a Russian passport. So it stands to reason that some rebels are Russian soldiers.

Putin has said break-up of the Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy of the twentieth century. And he's trying to build a "Eurasian Union" with members of the former Soviet Union. He really really wanted Ukraine to join. It isn't much of a stretch to say he's trying to rebuild the Soviet Union. So calling soldiers of the Russian Federation, fighting in Ukraine, "Soviet"? Not far from the truth.

[andyt]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

andyt andyt:

Well just look at the bs being spread in the post just above yours.

Putin already admitted that many of those organizing "rebels" in Crimea were Russian soldiers who removed their patches. And the leader of the Donetsk rebels is from Russia. PostFactum posted pictures of some dead rebels who carried a Russian passport. So it stands to reason that some rebels are Russian soldiers.

Putin has said break-up of the Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy of the twentieth century. And he's trying to build a "Eurasian Union" with members of the former Soviet Union. He really really wanted Ukraine to join. It isn't much of a stretch to say he's trying to rebuild the Soviet Union. So calling soldiers of the Russian Federation, fighing in Ukraine, "Soviet"? Not far from the truth.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

There are no rebels.

[Canadian_Mind]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I'd like to know how the fight in Ukraine is going. PF, barring direct involvement from Russia, how long until the rebels finally capitulate?

There are no rebels. They are Russian Soviet regulars in Russian Soviet uniforms who have removed their national flag and unit patches from their uniforms.

Either way, it's a rebellion against the current governing body in Ukraine, and the Ukrainian army and air force seem to be kicking the shit out of them.

[martin14]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Me too. The Russians had an excuse back in the Soviet days, when they only had access to state-run media. Nowadays they have access to the same infomration we do, yet behave as if they only had access to state-run media.

Maybe it's human nature. Or maybe it's the internet age--a massive glut of data makes it possible to justify almost any belief, and it is difficult to determine authentic infomration from meaningless data.

I'll stake money on English.

Not that easy to learn when you are a Slav.


2nd, good old fashioned patriotism. Russia is again a proud country, having crawled
out of the shit during Yeltsin.

[PostFactum]

[Winnipegger]

I posted this translation before, but you may not have noticed my edit. I added pictures.

$1:

SITUATION IN EAST UKRAINE

Control over settlements:
Date of release

Human resources of terrorists:
Location of terrorists Loss of terrorists

Position of Ukrainian military
Existing
Places clashes with terrorists

Border
Land border under the control of Ukraine
Place of armed clashes between Border and terrorists
Territory, under the control of terrorists as of 18 June

In the Azov Sea, in order to prevent the infiltration of subversive-intelligence groups on the coast of Donetsk region and security raids of ports of Mariupol and Berdyansk, continues duty of seven naval tactical groups

Location of civil airports

Location of military units of the Russian Federation

Boeing 777 crash site July 17, 2014

[PostFactum]

About the last sanctions. They are shit that will not have result, only bank system sanction will make Putin worry. Do not compare Soviet Union with nowadays Russia. Soviet Union had a lot of money for war. If in the 70-th there was war between US and SU I would bet on SU. Nowadays Russia has good weapons, anyway better than Ukrainians, old SU nuclear missiles, hungry soldiers. People there work on job till first payment, they get money buy vodka and go back to work when vodka ends. Their strongest side is that they have well organized propaganda machine ever, when we capture Russian soldiers they ask us if we will dissect them to take their organs. War methods changed, economy isolation can ruin country faster that nuclear weapons. Putin doesn't understands this yet.

[PostFactum]

[Winnipegger]

Right at the beginning, most pundits on the news said sanctions would not affect Putin. The only way to get his attention is military means. But NATO does not want to go to war with Russia. Direct war between Russia and NATO would be very very bad. If that happened, neither Russia nor the US could back down. Both would require complete capitulation and humiliation of the other. In order to ensure that doesn't happen, both would be willing to use whatever weapons they have. Both Russia and the US have nuclear weapons. But America promised to protect Ukraine should Russia invade. That promise was in exchange for Ukraine surrendering their nuclear weapons. So if Russia blatantly invades, then America has to defend Ukraine. Hence the mess we have now.

Sanctions? Russia gets most of its money from selling energy: oil and natural gas. Europe is dependant on that. As someone else pointed out, sanctions start with weapons. But France doesn't want to lose their contract to sell 3 navy ships to Russia: helicopter carriers. The UK has criticised France for this, but as long as this continues, Russia has no sanctions. And cut off all banks, but America has allowed one major Russian bank to conduct financial transactions. And sanctions mean Europe would have to get their energy from somewhere else. But Germany wants to shut down their nuclear plants, after the accident in Japan. That makes them even more dependant on Russian natural gas. Even more German money funnelled into Putin's pocket. So there are no sanctions to speak of.

I had admired the nuclear reprocessing plant in Italy, which recovers usable nuclear fuel from reactor fuel that has accumulated so much waste that they can't be used any more. There's still a lot of uranium in that "spent" fuel. Reactors transmute some uranium into other elements close to it on the periodic table. However, most of those other elements can be used as fuel. The reactor in Italy uses those other elements as fuel to run the process, and generate energy as it produces fuel for other reactors. Neither Canada nor America has anything like that. But Germany wants to shut this system down? Typical politician over-reaction. Japan had identified the problem with their reactor design, and was building reactors to replace the old ones. Unfortunately the earthquake hit before the new reactors were ready.

I would characterize moving from nuclear to non-renewable fossil fuel as moving backward. But moving from energy independence to dependence on Russia? I would like to include Russia in the world economy, but becoming dependant on them while the Ukraine situation is happening? That's just stupid.