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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:53 pm
 


Dayseed Dayseed:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Agreed Riden. I always like a bit of a debate but the tirade everybody gets subjected to when mustang foists himself off his lofty perch to 'school' us mere mortals, well it's really counter productive to any discussion.

He's just another forum bully. It's a pity really, it could be so much more fun if he stopped his tiresome ways. His message is getting lost in his arrogant approach and the barrage of insults.

I leave it at that and he can rebutt with his usual caustic diatribe. I'm sure it'll make him feel most superior.


Sorry Eyebrock, but on this one, you appear to be wrong. If you want examples, I'll go back and quote them, but for the most part, you're guilty of hypocritically proceeding here. You want Mustang to refrain from personal insults while you casually toss them all over the place, you want him to cease with "dictionary" words but you don't mind peppering all of your posts with British ideoms and lastly, he's remained on point regarding 1991 as not being too historically removed from 2008 to allow for past prejudices to be forgiven whereas you dropped that before he did.

You're a bright guy, so I don't know why you so easily run away from the argument to derail it yourself by steering the whole shebang into what essentially amounts to a whine-fest. If you don't like Mustang talking smack then A) don't do it yourself and B) stick to the salient points.

From reading over the thread, it looks like the main disagreement is one you've personalized; that is, is somebody a bad person for having been bigoted in the past? I think that's the root difference between apologizing and not apologizing for the remarks the MP made. The answer is yes. Apologizing shows us that despite having been bigoted, a person is able to separate present-self from his past-self and acknowledge that past views were wrong. If there's no apology, there's no recognition that those views were wrong, just contemporary to other bigots of the time. If you've turned over a new leaf regarding gays, then what's the big deal about saying when you hated them, you were wrong to do so? It's just confirmation of the views that you now hold.

This one seems so easy to me.


Exactly. I'm interested in seeing if our esteemed hypocrite concurs with this assessment. And it wasn't so long ago that he used this same tact with you - methinks this is standard defence for his glaring screw ups.

:wink:

His typical approach:

1. Instigate
2. Insult (by the way - i'm guilty of this too, but i'm no hypocrite)
3. Derail discussion the minute objective evidence is demanded
4. Make hypocritical decelerations
5. Personalize
6. Cry victim
7. Bow out - he's objects to alleged "juvenile" discussion.u


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:04 pm
 


Western civilization begins in Greece where homosexuality was more valued than heterosexuality. If Greek sculptors would have found naked men ugly and dirty, they would not have produced their masterpieces.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:15 pm
 


so....you think homosexuality was the creative force behind Western civilization?? When did you come to this conclusion, before or after you switched from basket weaving to women's studies?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:25 pm
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
so....you think homosexuality was the creative force behind Western civilization?? When did you come to this conclusion, before or after you switched from basket weaving to women's studies?


"The tradition of Greek homosexuality is borne of the military tradition of boys being taken to older men for military instruction."

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~phl102y/nq10-01.html


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:02 am
 


You just can't leave it alone can you?

Why are you so angry all the time?

Really you should consider how your conduct of late looks to everybody else.

I have nothing against you mustang, but you make it very hard to like you. You obviously don't care what people think otherwise you would approach these things differently.

It isn't all about ramming your argument down people’s throat and then declaring victory, or getting the last word in with a sarcastic one liner. Really, it's not a mature way of doing business.
Are you not supposed to be 38 years old?
Have you spent some much time in school that the high-school methods of conflict resolution are still your default?

This is a discussion forum and your conduct of late is no better than some of the obnoxious posters that come and go from this forum.
I would say a good majority of us 'regulars' have been on the other end of one of your caustic and sarcastic posts at one time, now it's my turn for the wrath of mustang is it?

Well, dealing with bullies is what I do for a living and you are no different that many bullies I see daily.
Really, your reputation for bullying is growing fast.

I've had several PM's of you from past ‘victims’ of yours on this thread, all of which concur with my posts challenging your conduct, which you will no doubt sneeringly class as 'cheer leaders'.

When a good chunk of people are saying the same thing about you, maybe you need to rethink your delivery method.
Or you can just go on pissing people off, one person at a time until there is no good-will towards you left on this forum. But would you even care about that? I couldn’t say really.

Personally I'd rather try and get on with you but compromise does not seem to be something you value. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this attitude?

Do us all a favour and try and be a bit easier going.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:41 am
 


Socrates was more sexually attracted to Alcibiades than to his own wife Xanthippe. Socrates saved Alcibiades' life in the battle of Potidaea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:15 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
You just can't leave it alone can you?


Says the hypocrite that responds with a Karma bomb post

$1:
Why are you so angry all the time?


I'm not, Dr. Phil. Why are you constantly intellectually insecure?

$1:
Really you should consider how your conduct of late looks to everybody else.


Really, you should follow your own advice - YOU, not me, started with the condescending tone, and YOU, not me, instigated it, and you're hardly the epitome of civil discourse. In fact, this was the exact same tact you've taken with others, so clean up your messes first before chastising others.

$1:
I have nothing against you mustang, but you make it very hard to like you. You obviously don't care what people think otherwise you would approach these things differently.


Yes, you do. You, not me, has invested personally in this - many credible members
from Dayseed to Zipperfish have affirmed my points regarding what was sociall permissiable in 1991. You have to resort to this kind of self-righteous attention whoring because if you didn't, you'd have to make a point.

$1:
It isn't all about ramming your argument down people’s throat and then declaring victory, or getting the last word in with a sarcastic one liner. Really, it's not a mature way of doing business.


I agree, but you don't make arguments - you constantly resort to logical fallacies and personal slurs. I made several relevant points that were left not addressed in your follow-up victim-crying posts. Sorry, your as guilty as i am, but the difference is, i'm not sanctimoniously calling for you to stop.

$1:
Are you not supposed to be 38 years old?


Uhh...no. And how would that excuse your conduct? The fact here is that you're a blatant hypocrite. You decry insults while insulting, you chastise education while trying to push civility and you claim these exchanges are beneath you (this was after I was accused of arrogance - more hypocrisies) yet you devote entire posts to personal attacks.

$1:
Have you spent some much time in school that the high-school methods of conflict resolution are still your default?


There's nothing to resolve here. You were wrong. I wouldn't even push the issue if you didn't keep retreating to these long diatribes (again, didn't you hypocritically accuse me of the same thing?) that are only designed to insult and personalize trivial matter

$1:
This is a discussion forum and your conduct of late is no better than some of the obnoxious posters that come and go from this forum.


Firstly, this is always my conduct. And secondly, why would I take seriously anything you puke out when you're guilty yourself of each misstep you decry?

$1:
I would say a good majority of us 'regulars' have been on the other end of one of your caustic and sarcastic posts at one time, now it's my turn for the wrath of mustang is it?


Everyone has a run in with everyone at some point and some can't let it drop. So what? It doesn't bother me that some don't like me because i've exposed their ignorance or challenged their bigotry or questioned their subjective stances. So what? Some people I get along fine with (even those I've had a significant run in with)

$1:
Well, dealing with bullies is what I do for a living and you are no different that many bullies I see daily.
Really, your reputation for bullying is growing fast.


Predictable. You personally attack me while simultaneously crying victim. I'd more concerned about your cry-baby rep.

$1:
I've had several PM's of you from past ‘victims’ of yours on this thread, all of which concur with my posts challenging your conduct, which you will no doubt sneeringly class as 'cheer leaders'.


Really? Who? Of course they're cheerleaders - they're likely people that have had their ignorance busted wide open and now carry a grudge. So? That's hardly persuasive. In fact, i'll bet this is the same group that has numerous warnings about infractions, been temporarily banned and therefore carry little weight. Has Zipperfish contacted you? Derby? Regina? Rev? Dayseed? Spr? Brenda? Xerxes? Arctic? WDHIII? Streaker? They're regulars and I respect their opinions

$1:
When a good chunk of people are saying the same thing about you, maybe you need to rethink your delivery method.


Firstly, define "good chunk". Secondly, unless these people are virtually flawless in their decorum, i'm not interested in your self-righteous high school gossip whispering.

$1:
Or you can just go on pissing people off, one person at a time until there is no good-will towards you left on this forum. But would you even care about that? I couldn’t say really.


Why do you even think your opinion matters? Or the other guy who's a sexist? Or the guy who's a bigot? Or the girl that denies objective truth? Or the other one that slams Canada? Or the one that pushes an agenda? You're assuming that their opinions carry weight. Not with me.

$1:
Personally I'd rather try and get on with you but compromise does not seem to be something you value. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this attitude?


Bull. You're an obstinate, anti-intellectual gossip-monger that's more interested in making personal proclamations than trying anything. I gave you an opportunity to prove your point. You insulted. I tried to maintain relevancy. You looked to derail. I noticed both Dayseed and Zipperfish agreed with my point, but you insecurely refused to concede it. You're disingenuous.

$1:
Do us all a favour and try and be a bit easier going.


Do some (you don't speak for CKA, so who's arrogant again?) of us a favor and clean up your act before chastising others and if you don't like what i post, hit the [ignore] button.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:30 pm
 


Benoit Benoit:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
so....you think homosexuality was the creative force behind Western civilization?? When did you come to this conclusion, before or after you switched from basket weaving to women's studies?


"The tradition of Greek homosexuality is borne of the military tradition of boys being taken to older men for military instruction."

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~phl102y/nq10-01.html


lol Beauty!...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:38 pm
 


Lukiwski can't possibly be anything other than a political liability to the Cons from now on. A little puzzling that he hasn't been given the sack.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:41 pm
 


Mustang1 Mustang1:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
You just can't leave it alone can you?


Says the hypocrite that responds with a Karma bomb post

$1:
Why are you so angry all the time?


I'm not, Dr. Phil. Why are you constantly intellectually insecure?

$1:
Really you should consider how your conduct of late looks to everybody else.


Really, you should follow your own advice - YOU, not me, started with the condescending tone, and YOU, not me, instigated it, and you're hardly the epitome of civil discourse. In fact, this was the exact same tact you've taken with others, so clean up your messes first before chastising others.

$1:
I have nothing against you mustang, but you make it very hard to like you. You obviously don't care what people think otherwise you would approach these things differently.


Yes, you do. You, not me, has invested personally in this - many credible members
from Dayseed to Zipperfish have affirmed my points regarding what was sociall permissiable in 1991. You have to resort to this kind of self-righteous attention whoring because if you didn't, you'd have to make a point.

$1:
It isn't all about ramming your argument down people’s throat and then declaring victory, or getting the last word in with a sarcastic one liner. Really, it's not a mature way of doing business.


I agree, but you don't make arguments - you constantly resort to logical fallacies and personal slurs. I made several relevant points that were left not addressed in your follow-up victim-crying posts. Sorry, your as guilty as i am, but the difference is, i'm not sanctimoniously calling for you to stop.

$1:
Are you not supposed to be 38 years old?


Uhh...no. And how would that excuse your conduct? The fact here is that you're a blatant hypocrite. You decry insults while insulting, you chastise education while trying to push civility and you claim these exchanges are beneath you (this was after I was accused of arrogance - more hypocrisies) yet you devote entire posts to personal attacks.

$1:
Have you spent some much time in school that the high-school methods of conflict resolution are still your default?


There's nothing to resolve here. You were wrong. I wouldn't even push the issue if you didn't keep retreating to these long diatribes (again, didn't you hypocritically accuse me of the same thing?) that are only designed to insult and personalize trivial matter

$1:
This is a discussion forum and your conduct of late is no better than some of the obnoxious posters that come and go from this forum.


Firstly, this is always my conduct. And secondly, why would I take seriously anything you puke out when you're guilty yourself of each misstep you decry?

$1:
I would say a good majority of us 'regulars' have been on the other end of one of your caustic and sarcastic posts at one time, now it's my turn for the wrath of mustang is it?


Everyone has a run in with everyone at some point and some can't let it drop. So what? It doesn't bother me that some don't like me because i've exposed their ignorance or challenged their bigotry or questioned their subjective stances. So what? Some people I get along fine with (even those I've had a significant run in with)

$1:
Well, dealing with bullies is what I do for a living and you are no different that many bullies I see daily.
Really, your reputation for bullying is growing fast.


Predictable. You personally attack me while simultaneously crying victim. I'd more concerned about your cry-baby rep.

$1:
I've had several PM's of you from past ‘victims’ of yours on this thread, all of which concur with my posts challenging your conduct, which you will no doubt sneeringly class as 'cheer leaders'.


Really? Who? Of course they're cheerleaders - they're likely people that have had their ignorance busted wide open and now carry a grudge. So? That's hardly persuasive. In fact, i'll bet this is the same group that has numerous warnings about infractions, been temporarily banned and therefore carry little weight. Has Zipperfish contacted you? Derby? Regina? Rev? Dayseed? Spr? Brenda? Xerxes? Arctic? WDHIII? Streaker? They're regulars and I respect their opinions

$1:
When a good chunk of people are saying the same thing about you, maybe you need to rethink your delivery method.


Firstly, define "good chunk". Secondly, unless these people are virtually flawless in their decorum, i'm not interested in your self-righteous high school gossip whispering.

$1:
Or you can just go on pissing people off, one person at a time until there is no good-will towards you left on this forum. But would you even care about that? I couldn’t say really.


Why do you even think your opinion matters? Or the other guy who's a sexist? Or the guy who's a bigot? Or the girl that denies objective truth? Or the other one that slams Canada? Or the one that pushes an agenda? You're assuming that their opinions carry weight. Not with me.

$1:
Personally I'd rather try and get on with you but compromise does not seem to be something you value. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this attitude?


Bull. You're an obstinate, anti-intellectual gossip-monger that's more interested in making personal proclamations than trying anything. I gave you an opportunity to prove your point. You insulted. I tried to maintain relevancy. You looked to derail. I noticed both Dayseed and Zipperfish agreed with my point, but you insecurely refused to concede it. You're disingenuous.

$1:
Do us all a favour and try and be a bit easier going.


Do some (you don't speak for CKA, so who's arrogant again?) of us a favor and clean up your act before chastising others and if you don't like what i post, hit the [ignore] button.


Really there is no point to this any longer. Ignore it is.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:19 pm
 


I think what would be an interesting new bent to this thread would be to examine the state of progressive ideas about homosexuality circa 1991. It's inexcusable that people would believe anti-homosexual bigotry would be acceptable, given that in 1977 Quebec had already added sexual orientation to the list of prohibited grounds for discrimination, Ontario had commissioned the landmark study (sorry, the name escapes me) which led to the Bill of Rights adding sexual orientation to the grounds for discrimination and by 1995, the Supreme Court had ruled in Egan v. Canada that same sex couples were entitled to survivor benefits, even despite not being married. Shit, even Mr. Furley learned to accept Jack's supposed homosexuality.

In 1991, there were certainly more anti-homosexual bigots than today; I don't have stats, but I'll bet my left nut it's true. But that doesn't mean it was socially permissable in 1991 to be anti-homosexual. Bill Clinton was making overtures to "Don't ask, don't tell". To believe that it was in anyway permissable to stand up and shout hatred about gays is simply erroneous.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:22 pm
 


Dayseed Dayseed:
I think what would be an interesting new bent to this thread would be to examine the state of progressive ideas about homosexuality circa 1991. It's inexcusable that people would believe anti-homosexual bigotry would be acceptable, given that in 1977 Quebec had already added sexual orientation to the list of prohibited grounds for discrimination, Ontario had commissioned the landmark study (sorry, the name escapes me) which led to the Bill of Rights adding sexual orientation to the grounds for discrimination and by 1995, the Supreme Court had ruled in Egan v. Canada that same sex couples were entitled to survivor benefits, even despite not being married. Shit, even Mr. Furley learned to accept Jack's supposed homosexuality.

In 1991, there were certainly more anti-homosexual bigots than today; I don't have stats, but I'll bet my left nut it's true. But that doesn't mean it was socially permissable in 1991 to be anti-homosexual. Bill Clinton was making overtures to "Don't ask, don't tell". To believe that it was in anyway permissable to stand up and shout hatred about gays is simply erroneous.



Damn you...sneaking in education again. And objective facts to boot! PDT_Armataz_01_37


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:57 pm
 


Streaker Streaker:
Benoit Benoit:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
so....you think homosexuality was the creative force behind Western civilization?? When did you come to this conclusion, before or after you switched from basket weaving to women's studies?


"The tradition of Greek homosexuality is borne of the military tradition of boys being taken to older men for military instruction."

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~phl102y/nq10-01.html


lol Beauty!...


We find beauty in youth. Socrates was attracted by younger and younger males. He receives capital punishment for that.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:11 pm
 


Benoit Benoit:
Streaker Streaker:
Benoit Benoit:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
so....you think homosexuality was the creative force behind Western civilization?? When did you come to this conclusion, before or after you switched from basket weaving to women's studies?


"The tradition of Greek homosexuality is borne of the military tradition of boys being taken to older men for military instruction."

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~phl102y/nq10-01.html


lol Beauty!...


We find beauty in youth. Socrates was attracted by younger and younger males. He receives capital punishment for that.


Actually Benoit, the average male does NOT find beauty in youth. While the idea of a lecherous old man slapping young titty is a common one, in truth, psychologically normal adult males are attracted to women their own age; that is, the women they most want to hump are contemporary to them, not younger.

Sorry, but I guess that's why tuition's higher at real universities than it is at your alma mater Wikipedia College. Apparently, one learns things at the real ones and isn't invited to edit course material anonymously and capriciously.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:18 pm
 


Dayseed Dayseed:
Actually Benoit, the average male does NOT find beauty in youth. While the idea of a lecherous old man slapping young titty is a common one, in truth, psychologically normal adult males are attracted to women their own age; that is, the women they most want to hump are contemporary to them, not younger.

Sorry, but I guess that's why tuition's higher at real universities than it is at your alma mater Wikipedia College. Apparently, one learns things at the real ones and isn't invited to edit course material anonymously and capriciously.


Now, try to explain why women are trying very hard to look young and why males very rarely marry women older than them.


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