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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:32 am
 


smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:
That doesn't really seem like 'whining' to me. It's more like "don't punish everyone because everyone isn't guilty".




Did you mean the real French citizens and taxpayers who are going to pay for escalation of the police state, and bear the brunt of government spying on it's own ?


Sounds a lot like collective punishment to me, only the wrong group gets punished.. as usual.


$1:

Hollande: state of emergency should be extended
Posted at 15.37

Hollande says parliament will meet on Wednesday to discuss extending the French state of emergency for three months.

"There will be more raids in France ... security and safety are fundamental rights," he says.


$1:
Hollande: constitutional change needed to expel security threats
Posted at 15.44

France needs to change its constitution to give authorities the power to expel more quickly foreigners who present a particularly serious risk to public order, Hollande says.

"I believe that we should modify our Constitution in order to allow ourselves to fight efficiently against terrorism."


$1:
Hollande: police, military, and judiciary reinforced
Posted at 15.48

Hollande announces additional resources for France's security forces.

5,000 additional police officers over the next two years.
2,500 extra posts within the country's prisons and judicial system.
1,000 extra staff for customs and border agency
No cuts to the armed forces before 2017
Additional computer and information resources for defence

"This is a considerable effort and the government is prepared to do what it takes," Hollande says.

He says France will restore the capabilities of its security forces to its 2007 level.




Khar Khar:
martin14 martin14:


But I am for more worried about the internal problems in Europe that are about
to be kicked off by this.


I'm worried about the internal problems as well.


Well, that didn't take long.
More cops, more guards, more money for all that.
As you can be sure they won't limit any constitutional change to just the
good parts.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:45 am
 


martin14 martin14:
Did you mean the real French citizens and taxpayers who are going to pay for escalation of the police state, and bear the brunt of government spying on it's own ?

Sounds a lot like collective punishment to me, only the wrong group gets punished.. as usual.


Anyone familiar with 'security' will be the first to say there is no 'perfect' security, and there are no 'absolutes' in life. Security is a trade off with freedom. If you have more of one, you have less of the other.

Perfect security means elimination of 100% of threats all of the time, where an incident needs only a single event to be successful. The odds are not good. So, we have to balance it - how much intrusion in our lives are we willing to accept versus how likely it is that we are the victims of one of these events.

And you are right that the wrong group is being punished. That's another thing that ISIS is counting on.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:47 am
 


I don't think his wrong group and your wrong group intersect.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:50 am
 


Image
Image
Minutes from slaughter: Joyous crowd wave and smile as they enjoy Eagles Of Death Metal concert... before 89 of them were murdered by ISIS gunmen
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3320420/Joyous-crowd-wave-smile-enjoy-Eagles-Death-Metal-concert-just-moments-89-murdered-ISIS-gunmen.html

____________________

:cry:


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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:02 am
 


France has never been bothered by the sort of things that liberals in North America or Britain have used to handcuff the state reaction against this type of attack. If they still have the 'guilty until proven innocent' thing going from the Napoleonic code as part of their legal system it really frees up the French police and military to hammer down hard on terrorists inside the county. As such we could see a rapid assault coming down on those hideous suburbs outside of Paris and other French cities with those rats nests of Muslims finally being dealt with.

This is the real French, the angry and vicious pricks of the Revolutionary bloodbaths and of the Napoleonic Grand Armee that stomped across Europe kicking everyone's ass for an entire decade, finally coming out of their self-imposed shell they've been hiding behind for far too long. Forget all those bullshit labels that got attached to France after the rapid surrender in WW2, which they had no choice to do anyway once their military had been so badly outclassed on the battlefield by the Germans. The real French are hard-nosed, pitiless, reactionary, and they hit goddamn fucking hard when they finally decide to do so. The civil rights types could be crying into their lattes before too long because both in Syria/Iraq and at home it's highly unlikely that France is going to back off. I could actually see them end up co-ordinating their efforts with Russia because I doubt they're going to be too interested for very long in listening to either the UN or the US if they feel their reaction is going to be blunted or held back.

A long overdue return to the true French character as far as I'm concerned. a moi la Legion! :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:05 am
 


France never gave up the fight in World War 2 as during the NAZI occupation they became an effective underground insurgency providing the allies with valuable intelligence.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:06 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:
That doesn't really seem like 'whining' to me. It's more like "don't punish everyone because everyone isn't guilty".


The terrorists didn't have any such problems, did they?


I don't know what you mean.

Would it be ok to start hitting all white people with baseball bats after that church shooting down south?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:07 am
 


BRAH BRAH:
France never gave up the fight in World War 2 as during the NAZI occupation they became an effective underground insurgency providing the allies with valuable intelligence.

That's a narrow view of what took place.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:09 am
 


John Oliver weighs in with an EPIC rant!!!! R=UP

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2 ... /75860548/


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:23 am
 


smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:
That doesn't really seem like 'whining' to me. It's more like "don't punish everyone because everyone isn't guilty".


The terrorists didn't have any such problems, did they?


I don't know what you mean.


It's impossible for you to imagine your pet Moslems doing anything wrong, I know. :roll:

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:
Would it be ok to start hitting all white people with baseball bats after that church shooting down south?


Have at it. I'm kind of bored and that sounds like a fun way to get my aerobic exercise in.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:35 am
 


It's worth noting here that earlier this year the White House was illuminated with the colors of the gay flag when gay marriage was legalized.

Yet with all the world lighting up with the French flag on Saturday night the White House stood out as one of the lone landmarks in the world that wasn't lit up with the Tricolor.

The White House has offered no explanation for this.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:43 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
John Oliver weighs in with an EPIC rant!!!! R=UP

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2 ... /75860548/


R=UP

Epic!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:45 am
 


smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:
BRAH BRAH:
France never gave up the fight in World War 2 as during the NAZI occupation they became an effective underground insurgency providing the allies with valuable intelligence.

That's a narrow view of what took place.


Not really. The underground membership surged only after the Allied landing. There were many brave underground members, but like most occupied nations at that time they were in the minority. Most people would rather keep their head down and avoid problems rather than being proactive.....still stands today


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:13 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
It's worth noting here that earlier this year the White House was illuminated with the colors of the gay flag when gay marriage was legalized.

Yet with all the world lighting up with the French flag on Saturday night the White House stood out as one of the lone landmarks in the world that wasn't lit up with the Tricolor.

The White House has offered no explanation for this.


Oh well...at least he's not flying his black one.

Yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:29 pm
 


Khar Khar:
This was not some "counter-attack," this was terrorism.

This blurs the line between terrorism and unconventional warfare. When Al Qaeda used a truck bomb to attack a US marine base in Beirut so many decades ago, that was not terrorism, that was unconventional warfare. When Al Qaeda hijacked passenger jets and slammed them into the twin towers of the World Trade Centre, the financial centre that pays for attacks on their land, this was not terrorism, it was unconventional warfare. During that same attack, Al Qaeda slammed a passenger jet into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the military they were at war with. That was not terrorism, it was unconventional warfare. Of course, the fact it was a form of warfare justifies response by invading Afghanistan. The only catch there is the government of Afghanistan (Taliban) offered to hand over Al Qaeda. George W. should have accepted that offer, but he wanted a war.

Now we have ISIS. Al Qaeda was a non-government organization trying to kick all foreigners out of their part of the world. They didn't defend territory, so conventional warfare didn't work. Now we have ISIS, and many of the same civilians who want all foreigners out are supporting ISIS. But ISIS isn't a non-government organization, they're trying to use war to create a nation. During World War 2, air bombing of Dresden was highly controversial. This was not attack on military infrastructure, it was just attack of civilians. What ISIS did to Paris is not ethically any different. Scale is actually much smaller. This is what you get when you go to war. And expect it'll get worse before the conflict is over.

Khar Khar:
Your second section also doesn't make sense.

Try "destroying" a ball of pond scum with a sledge hammer. All you'll do is spread the pond scum farther, which will grow where it lands. Spreading it just causes it to grow faster.

Khar Khar:
Further, there are clear and obvious strategic reasons why you want to use planes.

Planes work against tightly formed organized army formations. They don't work against infiltrators dispersed among civilians.

Khar Khar:
How would removing Assad get rid of ISIS?

Government forces of Syria could focus on ISIS instead of splitting their attention on fighting a two-front battle against their own people. And Western countries could provide aid directly to the military of Syria.

Khar Khar:
That would be the option you declined to include, which is for a concentrated Western attack on ISIS.

That is option 1: escalation. Expect they will respond with escalation in kind. ISIS has managed to get one radicalized individual to attempt a raid on our Parliament building. You say there hasn't been another 9/11 in the US yet. Yet. Russia got involved, this resulted in a Russian airliner crash. France escalated, the result was Paris. If the US escalates, expect something in the US.

Justin Trudeau campaigned on a promise stop bombing with CF-18s, and send trainers for regional forces. That makes sense. That's the best option.

If ISIS continues to attack western countries on their own soil (or counter-attack) then expect an all-out invasion. We haven't seen NATO allied with Russia since World War 2. Imagine the full might of USA, Russia, France, Germany, UK, Spain, Hungary. Who else has been involved, or has been affected by refugees? I believe all of NATO is in some way involved, including new eastern European members. Are we at a point that could be justified? Will the US Security Council authorize all-out war against ISIS? War is messy; yes we would win, but at what cost?

But "picking at them" like was done with Al Qaeda will only make them stronger.


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