[commanderkai]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Yep, that about covers it.

Meh, at least we're doing something, even if it is symbolic.

[saturn_656]

Not saying we need to start sending the troops into Crimea, but there are more serious actions the west as a whole can take.

Expel Russia from the G8.

Sanctions with teeth.

Large scale NATO "exercises" in Poland, Romania, Hungary, etc.

Deploy a NATO fleet into the Black Sea.

[Jabberwalker]

It will take the better part of a half a year to get meaningful "large scale" NATO forces together in a place like Poland, Romania, Hungary. Canada isn't the only member of NATO to have let its forces atrophy. There was that talk about the end of the Cold War, for the last while. No on is prepared to do anything. The only naval force at hand is the Standing Force Atlantic. At least it's relatively modern. The Russian navy is largely a collection of rust buckets but you have to wonder how much good a squadron of frigates can do sailing around in the Black Sea anyway.

[saturn_656]

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

[llama66]

I think the thing that will give the EU cause for pause is, if they display such a backbone to the Russians, Moscow would shut off the natural gas to western Europe. I think we'll see the European Powers deliver somewhat strongly worded rhetoric with very little in the way of concrete repercussions. The United Nations will be even more powerless, considering Russia's position at the security council will allow them to veto any resolutions against them. NATO cannot send SNMG2 because a NATO country was not directly attacked/invaded/whatever.

Total Quagmire.

[andyt]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

Are we prepared to do something when we're "here". Otherwise we're just blowing hot air. Doesn't seem we have a lot of trump cards to play - they all seem to be in Russia's hand.

[saturn_656]

andyt andyt:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

Are we prepared to do something when we're "here". Otherwise we're just blowing hot air. Doesn't seem we have a lot of trump cards to play - they all seem to be in Russia's hand.

It's called gunboat diplomacy. You send a strong message just having your forces present.

[martin14]

Oi vey.

[Jabberwalker]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

You had better look at a map. Sailing a NATO fleet into the Black Sea is a bit like the Russians sailing a fleet into Lake Ontario. You had better hope that no shooting starts because your ships could easily become trapped well within range of Russia's rather high quality aircraft, etc..

I would imagine that there are still U.S. Navy ships in the Black Sea, anyway, that were sent there to provide an escape, had the Olympics gone sideways.

[saturn_656]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

You had better look at a map. Sailing a NATO fleet into the Black Sea is a bit like the Russians sailing a fleet into Lake Ontario. You had better hope that no shooting starts because your ships could easily become trapped well within range of Russia's rather high quality aircraft, etc..

I would imagine that there are still U.S. Navy ships in the Black Sea, anyway, that were sent there to provide an escape, had the Olympics gone sideways.

I'm aware of where the Black Sea is. The USAF also has an air base in Turkey.

Anyway the point isn't to engage in combat. It's a pressure tactic.

[saturn_656]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/gunmen-surr ... -1.1710281

Russian troops have taken positions around a Ukrainian Army installation and are blockading it

[andyt]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

andyt andyt:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

Are we prepared to do something when we're "here". Otherwise we're just blowing hot air. Doesn't seem we have a lot of trump cards to play - they all seem to be in Russia's hand.

It's called gunboat diplomacy. You send a strong message just having your forces present.

We'd better be prepared to use those gunboats then, and that we'd (actually they's since just how many gunboats could we muster) get our gunboats shoved up our asses. Putin could not afford to back down from such a push, and he's a lot more willing to have his soldiers killed than we are.

[Gunnair]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

You had better look at a map. Sailing a NATO fleet into the Black Sea is a bit like the Russians sailing a fleet into Lake Ontario. You had better hope that no shooting starts because your ships could easily become trapped well within range of Russia's rather high quality aircraft, etc..

I would imagine that there are still U.S. Navy ships in the Black Sea, anyway, that were sent there to provide an escape, had the Olympics gone sideways.

Fleet manoeuvres in the Med and North Pacific would be a start.

[andyt]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/gunmen-surround-ukraine-military-base-putin-urged-to-pull-back-russian-troops-1.1710281

Russian troops have taken positions around a Ukrainian Army installation and are blockading it

$1:

Ukraine mobilizes after Putin's 'declaration of war' Ukraine has appealed for help to NATO, and directly to Britain and the United States, as co-signatories with Moscow to a 1994 accord guaranteeing Ukraine's security after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/putin-ready-in ... nance.html

Wondered why they hadn't done it earlier.

[andyt]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

There's also SNMG2 (NATO's Mediterranean fleet).

Sending them in is making a statement. Sending the message that we're "here" so to speak. Better than the hot air that's been getting blown about so far.

You had better look at a map. Sailing a NATO fleet into the Black Sea is a bit like the Russians sailing a fleet into Lake Ontario. You had better hope that no shooting starts because your ships could easily become trapped well within range of Russia's rather high quality aircraft, etc..

I would imagine that there are still U.S. Navy ships in the Black Sea, anyway, that were sent there to provide an escape, had the Olympics gone sideways.

Fleet manoeuvres in the Med and North Pacific would be a start.

Putin can't afford to back down now - way too much for him to lose if he does. So if we're going to rattle sabers, we'd better be prepared to actually use them. I don't think we are, and I'm not sure we should be. It sucks to feel helpless, I know, but we just don't have any good cards to play here, that I can see.