[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

My understanding is that in this case Israel started bombing Gaza in retaliation for the killing of the three boys, and that Hamas launched rockets in response to this.

Uh...no.

In order here's the principle events of the past month or so:

1. The three Jewish boys were killed by parties as yet unknown.

2. Palestinians openly celebrated the deaths of the three boys.

3. IDF arrested suspects in the murders based upon signals intelligence.

4. A young West Bank boy was murdered by Jewish suspects who are now in custody and facing murder convictions.

5. Rioting occurs in response to the murder of the West Bank boy.

6. Hamas breaks a two year old truce and starts firing the first of now over 900 rockets into Israel.

7. Israel slowly escalates its response until the past few days when rocket launching sites and known Hamas facilities and the homes of Hamas leaders have been destroyed.

[BRAH]

desertdude desertdude:

andyt andyt:

My understanding is that in this case Israel started bombing Gaza in retaliation for the killing of the three boys, and that Hamas launched rockets in response to this.

Oh stop being factual Andy ! Close to 150 killed and 1200 injured, majority of them civilians including women and children on the Israeli side 2 injured, the numbers speak for themselves.

Meanwhile Israelis enjoying the murder of Palestinians in Gaza, while being bombed by the IDF.

Israelis watch Gaza bombing form a hilltop near Sderot taken by Danish journalist Allen Sorensen on July 9.



Israelis gathered on a hilltop outside the town of Sderot on Monday to watch the bombardment of Gaza. Lefteris Pitarakis/Associated Press

Do you have any links to back up these claims?

[Freakinoldguy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

My understanding is that in this case Israel started bombing Gaza in retaliation for the killing of the three boys, and that Hamas launched rockets in response to this.

Uh...no.

In order here's the principle events of the past month or so:

1. The three Jewish boys were killed by parties as yet unknown.

2. Palestinians openly celebrated the deaths of the three boys.

3. IDF arrested suspects in the murders based upon signals intelligence.

4. A young West Bank boy was murdered by Jewish suspects who are now in custody and facing murder convictions.

5. Rioting occurs in response to the murder of the West Bank boy.

6. Hamas breaks a two year old truce and starts firing the first of now over 900 rockets into Israel.

7. Israel slowly escalates its response until the past few days when rocket launching sites and known Hamas facilities and the homes of Hamas leaders have been destroyed.

Interesting. #4 is coming to pass but #1 will likely remain a cold case file despite the fact that every sane person has a very good idea who was behind the killings. So with that being said I'm still waiting for the Hero's from Hamas who form the Gov't in the Gaza to reciprocate in the death of the 3 Israeli teens

$1:

MOHAMMED ABU KHDEIR: SUSPECTS IN COURT

Israel has ordered three Jews suspected in the kidnapping and killing of a Palestinian teenager held until Friday as they made their first court appearance.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld says the three appeared before a court on Monday. He says the suspects admitted to abducting 16-year-old Mohammed Abu Khdeir and setting him on fire. Rosenfeld says they also re-enacted the murder.

Rosenfeld initially said the three had been charged in the killing but later corrected his statement to say they had been ordered held until Friday.

Abu Khdeir was taken on July 2 near his home in east Jerusalem and his charred body was later found in a forest. His death set off days of violent protests in Arab areas of Jerusalem and northern Israel.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e19583865/

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-josef-olmert/reactions-to-the-gaza-isr_b_5584150.html

The current round of hostilities between Hamas and Israel is continuing along familiar lines. First, Hamas starts the round by indiscriminately firing rockets designed to hit civilians. Then, the Israelis start reacting, first slowly, then more intensely, and inevitably Hamas launches the campaign of self-victimization, yelling of foul play, claiming that the Israeli reaction is disproportional, as if there is any universally accepted scale of reaction to barbaric attacks on civilian population, the type of which Hamas is engaged in.

As it all drags itself into the second week, without any end in sight, there are other familiar features from former rounds which come out into the open, almost as an inevitable ritual. One of them is demonstrations by pro-Palestinians in Europe and South America, mostly attended by Muslims, much less so by others. What is SO noticeable in many of these demonstrations is the overt anti-Semitic tone. There is no attempt even to hide it, and while once it was the shout of "down with Zionists" (bad enough...), now it is "burn all the Jews," and a siege on a crowded synagogue in Paris. PR and psychological warfare are always a very integral part of all that, so in Israel, at least, these manifestations of hatred achieve the obvious effect of solidifying and cementing nationalist feelings, not something that the Netanyahu government is sorry about ... If there is a sense of some isolation in Israel, then it is largely mitigated by the obvious anger at the double standards that are so much in display, surely as is being viewed by the vast majority of Israelis.

My understanding is that in this case Israel started bombing Gaza in retaliation for the killing of the three boys, and that Hamas launched rockets in response to this.

Rockets attacks began first

[Goober911]

desertdude desertdude:

andyt andyt:

My understanding is that in this case Israel started bombing Gaza in retaliation for the killing of the three boys, and that Hamas launched rockets in response to this.

Oh stop being factual Andy ! Close to 150 killed and 1200 injured, majority of them civilians including women and children on the Israeli side 2 injured, the numbers speak for themselves.

Meanwhile Israelis enjoying the murder of Palestinians in Gaza, while being bombed by the IDF

Israelis watch Gaza bombing form a hilltop near Sderot taken by Danish journalist Allen Sorensen on July 9



Israelis gathered on a hilltop outside the town of Sderot on Monday to watch the bombardment of Gaza. Lefteris Pitarakis/Associated Press

That is not all Israeli's, same as not all Palestinians support terror attacks.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-josef-olmert/reactions-to-the-gaza-isr_b_5584150.html

The current round of hostilities between Hamas and Israel is continuing along familiar lines. First, Hamas starts the round by indiscriminately firing rockets designed to hit civilians. Then, the Israelis start reacting, first slowly, then more intensely, and inevitably Hamas launches the campaign of self-victimization, yelling of foul play, claiming that the Israeli reaction is disproportional, as if there is any universally accepted scale of reaction to barbaric attacks on civilian population, the type of which Hamas is engaged in.

As it all drags itself into the second week, without any end in sight, there are other familiar features from former rounds which come out into the open, almost as an inevitable ritual. One of them is demonstrations by pro-Palestinians in Europe and South America, mostly attended by Muslims, much less so by others. What is SO noticeable in many of these demonstrations is the overt anti-Semitic tone. There is no attempt even to hide it, and while once it was the shout of "down with Zionists" (bad enough...), now it is "burn all the Jews," and a siege on a crowded synagogue in Paris. PR and psychological warfare are always a very integral part of all that, so in Israel, at least, these manifestations of hatred achieve the obvious effect of solidifying and cementing nationalist feelings, not something that the Netanyahu government is sorry about ... If there is a sense of some isolation in Israel, then it is largely mitigated by the obvious anger at the double standards that are so much in display, surely as is being viewed by the vast majority of Israelis.

Wow. Someone speaking truth against the vermin. How refreshing!

It is an opinion piece. No more, no less.

[Goober911]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world ... ?ref=world

JERUSALEM — Both the Israeli government and leaders of Hamas, the militant group that controls Gaza, said late Monday that they would consider a plan for a cease-fire put forward by the Egyptian Foreign Ministry.

The developments came as international calls mounted for a truce in the hostilities that erupted a week ago between Hamas and Israel. Officials in the region and the Egyptian state media said that Secretary of State John Kerry was expected to arrive in Cairo on Tuesday.

Israeli officials said the country’s security cabinet would meet early on Tuesday to study the Egyptian proposal, which calls for a swift halt to attacks by both sides, followed by a 48-hour cooling-off period and then talks aimed at a more lasting truce. The Egyptian government, which is not friendly to Hamas, presented the plan to Arab League foreign ministers at a meeting Monday evening.

There was little letup in the hostilities on Monday. Israel continued its air offensive against militant groups in Gaza and rockets continued to fly out of Gaza into Israel. One rocket struck a Bedouin encampment in the Negev desert and injured two sisters ages 15 and 10, according to the Israeli police, who said one of the girls’ injuries were severe.

[desertdude]

BRAH BRAH:

Do you have any links to back up these claims?

Unlike others posting anonymous propaganda, if you read the captions it mentions the name of the person who took it, when he took it and where he took it.

Goober911 Goober911:

That is not all Israeli's, same as not all Palestinians support terror attacks.

Never said all.

[desertdude]

andyt andyt:

Yes. And it's been pointed out that if Hamas disappears, the void will likely be IS coming into the picture.

Do you mean ISIL, well according to some that is what Israel wants and has actually supported the ISIL with weapons and cash in the past. Could also be why AFAIK ISIL hasn't said a word about the current situation in Gaza, strange from someone making such huge claims and all.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-mi ... is/5371624

Also more interesting reading from the same

http://www.globalresearch.ca/justified- ... rs/5391093

[andyt]

They are now called just called IS, as their ambition grows. The article I read this would be Yahoo's nightmare, but thinking about it, yes I can see it's exactly what he wants.

[desertdude]

Oh some seriously biased stuff !!!



P.S : My attention is only the 1st 6 minutes, couldn't find the video with the other non sense not attached to it

[BRAH]

desertdude desertdude:

BRAH BRAH:

Do you have any links to back up these claims?

Unlike others posting anonymous propaganda, if you read the captions it mentions the name of the person who took it, when he took it and where he took it. .

That's fine and dandy but if you're going to make serious accusations like this a link to back them up would be ideal don't you think?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Delwin Delwin:

Yeah I don't have 25 mins to kill, everyone I posted is pro-Israel. They are in fact Israeli, they are also pro-human rights and anti-occupation. And I watched a few minutes, seems pretty random.

It's cute when you post blogs and opinions, or argue about semantics or border guards. It's easier than reading the UNSCOP report I left a link to laying out in no uncertain terms, the war of extermination against Israel that Palestine was, and still is a willing participant of. They never had ANY intention of honouring the border put forth by the UN, even went so far as to say it will "be a line of fire and blood", yet people like you whine about Israeli expansion.

You see, in the logical world you don't get to announce that you will defy a UN resolution, initiate a war of extermination based on said defiance and then complain about genocide when you consistently get your ass handed to you while your civilians are bombed and have their land taken away.

The argument that the Palestinians are victims is only partially correct. They are victims of their own twisted regime. Ideological talking points do not trump actual facts and history, as much as you may want them to.

[andyt]

I've certainly heard Israelis say they want to take all the land west of the Jordan, if not Jordan itself. Pro-Israelis here have made supportive statements of such a move. As somebody posted here, David Ben Gurion seems to have recognized that the European Jews were pushing the Palestinians off their land. When, as Delwin has pointed out, Israelis chant kill all Arabs, how is that different than what the Palestinians come up with?

Looking at today, with Israel a fact on the ground, it seems ridiculous to me to see either side as the victim here, to try to claim that the Israelis are somehow the good guys. Neither side seems to want peace. The Palestinians attack Israeli civilians, the Israelis take more and more land. Both sides have to change direction. Israel needs to stop taking land and give some back. The Palestinians, as I've said need to give up their futile violence, all it does it play into the Israeli right's hand.

[Delwin]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Delwin Delwin:

Yeah I don't have 25 mins to kill, everyone I posted is pro-Israel. They are in fact Israeli, they are also pro-human rights and anti-occupation. And I watched a few minutes, seems pretty random.

It's cute when you post blogs and opinions, or argue about semantics or border guards. It's easier than reading the UNSCOP report I left a link to laying out in no uncertain terms, the war of extermination against Israel that Palestine was, and still is a willing participant of. They never had ANY intention of honouring the border put forth by the UN, even went so far as to say it will "be a line of fire and blood", yet people like you whine about Israeli expansion.

You see, in the logical world you don't get to announce that you will defy a UN resolution, initiate a war of extermination based on said defiance and then complain about genocide when you consistently get your ass handed to you while your civilians are bombed and have their land taken away.

The argument that the Palestinians are victims is only partially correct. They are victims of their own twisted regime. Ideological talking points do not trump actual facts and history, as much as you may want them to.

That's funny, it was Bart who brought up border guards, apparently the strength of the friendship between 2 countries is directly related to the calibre of the weapons on the border, you'll have to ask him about the formula.

As for the UN resolution, are you serious ? Israel has been defying the UN borders since the beginning and has also vowed never to honor them and never to end the occupation and never to cede the land west of Jordan or the part of Jerusalem that belongs to the Palestinians.

$1:

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu vowed Tuesday evening in a passionate address marking the start of Jerusalem Day “never” to divide Jerusalem.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breakin ... 014/05/28/

$1:

He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank. He indicated that he sees Israel standing almost alone on the frontlines against vicious Islamic radicalism, while the rest of the as-yet free world does its best not to notice the march of extremism. And he more than intimated that he considers the current American, John Kerry-led diplomatic team to be, let’s be polite, naive.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu- ... z37WAjO7sI


It was 10 years ago the UN had declared the wall illegal:

$1:

9 July 2004 – The International Court of Justice (ICJ) issued an advisory opinion today that Israel's building of a barrier in the occupied Palestinian territory is illegal and said construction must stop immediately and Israel should make reparations for any damage caused.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=11292&

But also:

U.N. rights investigator accuses Israel of 'ethnic cleansing'
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/2 ... JM20140321


Also, UN resolution 446 determined that the settlement were illegal in 1979 and Israel has been ignoring international law ever since, as they have been in the current conflict.
http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLU ... penElement

Also:

$1:

The cessation of such human rights violations could only be brought about by the dissolution of the occupation of the territories held by Israel since 1967, he said, warning that should negotiations between Israel and the State of Palestine falter and the unsatisfactory conditions continue, “simmering popular discontent could result in another round of serious violence”.

$1:

Israel’s illegal settlement under the full protection of its military forces proceeded apace, undermining the contiguity of the West Bank and the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination. Such illegal behaviour and refusal to commit to the internationally endorsed parameters for the two-State solution once again confirmed that Israel’s expansionist policies totally contradicted its claimed commitment to peace. “The international community must act to prevent a total collapse of these prospects of peace after so many years of efforts and support for a peaceful solution,” he urged.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/gaspd548.doc.htm


I can't believe you brought up a UN resolution. The UN has a committee dedicated to Israel's violation of UN resolutions. Israel doesn't get to preach international law to anyone, until they start abiding by it.