[Goober911]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/postevery ... e/?hpid=z2

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

[Goober911]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ml?hpid=z2

FERGUSON, Mo. — A Missouri state prosecutor on Tuesday prepared to present evidence to a grand jury in the police shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, hours before Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. was set to arrive to personally oversee the federal investigation.

A spokesman for St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch said a grand jury planned to begin hearing evidence Wednesday in the shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown by Darren Wilson, a white Ferguson police officer. It remained unclear whether Wilson would face charges in the Aug. 9 incident, which has triggered days of violent protest and dozens of arrests.

“We know this is of interest to a lot of people around the country,” the spokesman, Edward Magee, said in an interview. “We’re going to do this fairly and also attempt to do it in a timely manner.”

[Goober911]

Will they convene another Grand Jury. The Wilson one appears to be political in nature. So quick.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/michael-br ... -1.2740293

Police officers shot and killed a man brandishing a knife in north St. Louis, Mo., on Monday, police said, just eight kilometres from Ferguson where protests have raged since the deadly police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown.

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson confirmed the suspect was dead, and said an investigation is ongoing. No police officers were injured, he said.

Police Capt. Ed Kuntz said the suspect was a 23-year-old black man, but did not release his identity.

[BartSimpson]

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z2

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

I'm thinking this a**hole needs a refresher course on who he works for.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z2

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

I'm thinking this a**hole needs a refresher course on who he works for.

Where did he go wrong?

[Jabberwalker]

Goober911 Goober911:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z2

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

I'm thinking this a**hole needs a refresher course on who he works for.

Where did he go wrong?

Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names,
don’t tell me that I can’t stop you,
don’t say I’m a racist pig,
don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge.
Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary,
and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me.


... 'cause I've got the power, baby ... right here in this magazine and you don't.

[BartSimpson]

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z2

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

It's a nicely phrased editorial but the heart of it is: Right or wrong, I'm right and you're wrong.

That's part of why we're seeing people rioting in Ferguson.

[Goober911]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names,
don’t tell me that I can’t stop you,
don’t say I’m a racist pig,
don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge.
Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary,
and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me.


... 'cause I've got the power, baby ... right here in this magazine and you don't.

When you do that the emotional levels increase- Perhaps not on the Police officer but the one ranting and raving.
"I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves. I also believe every cop should use a body camera to record interactions with the community at all times. Every police car should have a video recorder".

"Community members deserve courtesy, respect and professionalism from their officers. Every person stopped by a cop should feel safe instead of feeling that their wellbeing is in jeopardy. Shouldn’t the community members extend the same courtesy to their officers and project that the officer’s safety is not threatened by their actions"?

[BartSimpson]

Goober911 Goober911:

Where did he go wrong?

1. Challenging a cop and asking them to justify their actions is a protected right.

2. Calling a cop a bad name is a protected right in the USA, but apparently LA is not part of the USA anymore.

3. Yelling at a cop is not a reason for a cop to hurt you.

4. His principal message conflicts with his statement:

$1:

And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

According to his principal message I do have to submit to an illegal stop or search or else I can expect to get hurt. I better not refuse consent to a search or I can get hurt. I'm not allowed to ask if I'm being detained or I can expect to get hurt. And if the cop is holding me for no good reason and I challenge it then I can also expect to be hurt.

In short, if I don't submit to every last violation of my rights, right down to being physically assaulted, I should expect to get hurt.

Under those conditions I don't see why the average citizen should not treat every encounter with police as a potentially life-threatening event. According to this cop everyone should anticipate and submit to being abused by the police, maybe even killed, and they had damn well better shut the f*ck up while it's happening. Feel free to take them to court after you get out of the hospital or not if you go to the morgue.

While I still believe most cops are decent folks, if I met this one I'd be just as ready to defend myself from him as I would some jihadi in the sandbox. The problem for the average citizen is sorting out the good ones from guys like this who think that their badge renders them into Judge Dredd.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Goober911 Goober911:

Where did he go wrong?

1. Challenging a cop and asking them to justify their actions is a protected right.

2. Calling a cop a bad name is a protected right in the USA, but apparently LA is not part of the USA anymore.

3. Yelling at a cop is not a reason for a cop to hurt you.

4. His principal message conflicts with his statement:

$1:

And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

According to his principal message I do have to submit to an illegal stop or search or else I can expect to get hurt. I better not refuse consent to a search or I can get hurt. I'm not allowed to ask if I'm being detained or I can expect to get hurt. And if the cop is holding me for no good reason and I challenge it then I can also expect to be hurt.

In short, if I don't submit to every last violation of my rights, right down to being physically assaulted, I should expect to get hurt.

Under those conditions I don't see why the average citizen should not treat every encounter with police as a potentially life-threatening event. According to this cop everyone should anticipate and submit to being abused by the police, maybe even killed, and they had damn well better shut the f*ck up while it's happening. Feel free to take them to court after you get out of the hospital or not if you go to the morgue.

While I still believe most cops are decent folks, if I met this one I'd be just as ready to defend myself from him as I would some jihadi in the sandbox. The problem for the average citizen is sorting out the good ones from guys like this who think that their badge renders them into Judge Dredd.

Nope.

[BartSimpson]

Goober911 Goober911:

Nope.

Your time will come. Not even cops are immune to being abused by cops.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Goober911 Goober911:

Nope.

Your time will come. Not even cops are immune to being abused by cops.

Meself as they say, if stopped by Police, I do not give a shit. Polite all the good stuff etc. Then I go from there.

[Jabberwalker]

Goober911 Goober911:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names,
don’t tell me that I can’t stop you,
don’t say I’m a racist pig,
don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge.
Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary,
and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me.


... 'cause I've got the power, baby ... right here in this magazine and you don't.

When you do that the emotional levels increase- Perhaps not on the Police officer but the one ranting and raving.
"I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves. I also believe every cop should use a body camera to record interactions with the community at all times. Every police car should have a video recorder".

"Community members deserve courtesy, respect and professionalism from their officers. Every person stopped by a cop should feel safe instead of feeling that their wellbeing is in jeopardy. Shouldn’t the community members extend the same courtesy to their officers and project that the officer’s safety is not threatened by their actions"?

I have the right to sue you and threaten to take away your badge. You are a public servant, not my master. (... not as if any police force would back a member of the public, anyway). Don't worry. The Police will always look out for the Police and the constitutional rights of the public (for which far way too many police do not agree) are way down the list of their priorities.

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Goober911 Goober911:

Where did he go wrong?

1. Challenging a cop and asking them to justify their actions is a protected right.

2. Calling a cop a bad name is a protected right in the USA, but apparently LA is not part of the USA anymore.

3. Yelling at a cop is not a reason for a cop to hurt you.

4. His principal message conflicts with his statement:

$1:

And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

According to his principal message I do have to submit to an illegal stop or search or else I can expect to get hurt. I better not refuse consent to a search or I can get hurt. I'm not allowed to ask if I'm being detained or I can expect to get hurt. And if the cop is holding me for no good reason and I challenge it then I can also expect to be hurt.

In short, if I don't submit to every last violation of my rights, right down to being physically assaulted, I should expect to get hurt.

Under those conditions I don't see why the average citizen should not treat every encounter with police as a potentially life-threatening event. According to this cop everyone should anticipate and submit to being abused by the police, maybe even killed, and they had damn well better shut the f*ck up while it's happening. Feel free to take them to court after you get out of the hospital or not if you go to the morgue.

While I still believe most cops are decent folks, if I met this one I'd be just as ready to defend myself from him as I would some jihadi in the sandbox. The problem for the average citizen is sorting out the good ones from guys like this who think that their badge renders them into Judge Dredd.

Bart's pretty much nailed it here.

The cop's article does make a valid point - during a police interaction, getting hysterical and acting ignorant is not going to help you and can only make things worse. But the problem with his thesis (beyond what Bart's already mentioned) is that it's overly simplistic. By his own admission, police use discretion when deciding whether to defuse the situation (e.g. his example of the man doused in gasoline) and when to escalate. AND by his own admission, police are trained and experienced experts in police-civilian encounters, wheras a police stop is often a unknown and unsettling experience to a civilian and they can understandably panic and become irrational. When confronting an hysterical or difficult person, cops make a decision whether to take the "now now, lets remain calm" approach or the puffed-chest "Respect My Authority!" approach.

If police are such highly-trained professionals, they should be more astute at responsibly handling hysterical citizens, especially when they're only expecting an interaction to "last a few minutes" as he alleges. I don't care how hysterical they guy got, a jaywalking ticket shouldn't lead to a physical altercation or a shooting. It's JAYWALKING, the cop shouldn't let it get that far out of hand.

And while we're on the topic, who gets stopped for jaywalking anyways, let alone has such a minor infraction escalate to a physical altercation? These things seem to only happen to people of a certain ....*ahem* ....characteristic

[Thanos]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

And while we're on the topic, who gets stopped for jaywalking anyways, let alone has such a minor infraction escalate to a physical altercation? These things seem to only happen to people of a certain ....*ahem* ....characteristic

In austerity-land police departments have had their budgets cut and told to find funding elsewhere. The politicians then cynically tell them that they can confiscate the proceeds of crime (acquired in everything from major drug busts to jaywalking fines) and use the revenue from it to replace whatever funding the city council/county seat/state has cut from them. This forces the department to engage in broken-windows policing where every small issue, no matter how stupid it is, requires police involvement and the issuing (at minimum) of some kind of fine.

This allows the rotten politicians to play it both ways. They can claim to be deficit fighters by cutting the police budget. And they can also play crime-fighter too, but pointing out that the massive increase in the number of arrests and fines under their "watch" shows their (alleged) commitment against crime. It essentially turns the police into some kind of bill collector agency that is reliant on more and more arrests and fines just to keep the police department functioning.

The cops are in the middle of this mess as much as anyone else is. If there's a true villain out there it's the politicians, mostly the right-wing ones, who've been playing the police for a bunch of chumps and forcing policy on them dependent on which way the political weathervane is pointing. A decade ago in the aftermath of 9/11 it was "more cops! more weapons! less cowtowing to criminals!". Today it's a bunch of pseudo-libertarian bullshit, austerity politics, and plaintive appeals against the so-called "police state" that they are the ones the most responsible for creating in the first place.