[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Attacking with the Ukrainian army is exactly what the Russians want them to do. They would be playing by the Russian script. The Ukraine has shown great restraint and, so far, the worst has not happened. It is an extremely difficult balancing act that they are engaged in but there is evidence that it is working. Consider the occupiers to be dangerous criminals rather than a military foe.

Everything may change after the election, though.

Nobody is talking about Ukraine attacking Russia. Unfortunately Ukraine is caught in a trap. If they attack the insurgents Russia may roll tanks. If Ukraine stands idly by, the insurgents just win without Russia rolling tanks. Good for Ukraine for choosing to not just stand idly by, as they did in the beginning. It appears Russia doesn't actually want to invade Ukaine, they just want to destabilize it enough to make it form a looser union that Russia can have more control over.

We don't just let dangerous criminals do what they want either, and use force of arms when they resist arrest.

[Gunnair]

PostFactum PostFactum:

andyt andyt:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Attacking with the Ukrainian army is exactly what the Russians want them to do. They would be playing by the Russian script. The Ukraine has shown great restraint and, so far, the worst has not happened. It is an extremely difficult balancing act that they are engaged in but there is evidence that it is working. Consider the occupiers to be dangerous criminals rather than a military foe.

Everything may change after the election, though.

Nobody is talking about Ukraine attacking Russia. Unfortunately Ukraine is caught in a trap. If they attack the insurgents Russia may roll tanks. If Ukraine stands idly by, the insurgents just win without Russia rolling tanks. Good for Ukraine for choosing to not just stand idly by, as they did in the beginning. It appears Russia doesn't actually want to invade Ukaine, they just want to destabilize it enough to make it form a looser union that Russia can have more control over.

We don't just let dangerous criminals do what they want either, and use force of arms when they resist arrest.

That's a weak rejoinder.

[andyt]

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Attacking with the Ukrainian army is exactly what the Russians want them to do. They would be playing by the Russian script. The Ukraine has shown great restraint and, so far, the worst has not happened. It is an extremely difficult balancing act that they are engaged in but there is evidence that it is working. Consider the occupiers to be dangerous criminals rather than a military foe.

Everything may change after the election, though.

Nobody is talking about Ukraine attacking Russia. Unfortunately Ukraine is caught in a trap. If they attack the insurgents Russia may roll tanks. If Ukraine stands idly by, the insurgents just win without Russia rolling tanks. Good for Ukraine for choosing to not just stand idly by, as they did in the beginning. It appears Russia doesn't actually want to invade Ukaine, they just want to destabilize it enough to make it form a looser union that Russia can have more control over.

We don't just let dangerous criminals do what they want either, and use force of arms when they resist arrest.

Unless you're in Nevada.

Or Caledonia.

[PostFactum]

Gunnair Gunnair:

That's a weak rejoinder.

I can't react seriously on his bullshit.

[Gunnair]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Gunnair Gunnair:

That's a weak rejoinder.

I can't react seriously on his bullshit.

Well, you can react apparently.

[PostFactum]

Gunnair Gunnair:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Gunnair Gunnair:

That's a weak rejoinder.

I can't react seriously on his bullshit.

Well, you can react apparently.

It's like speak with wall.

[Gunnair]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Gunnair Gunnair:

PostFactum PostFactum:

I can't react seriously on his bullshit.

Well, you can react apparently.

It's like speak with wall.

Yeah, I know the feeling.

[andyt]

Certainly a better response than his claim that anybody who is pro-Russian has been bribed or is a Russian agent. A significant number of people in the East did not support events in Kyiv, are doing an anti-maidan.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Certainly a better response than his claim that anybody who is pro-Russian has been bribed or is a Russian agent. A significant number of people in the East did not support events in Kyiv, are doing an anti-maidan.

Because I don't see reasons for mental healthy human to support "this". And even Russian journalists who were making an investigation, said that those people just want money and nothing more.

[Gunnair]

PostFactum PostFactum:

andyt andyt:

Certainly a better response than his claim that anybody who is pro-Russian has been bribed or is a Russian agent. A significant number of people in the East did not support events in Kyiv, are doing an anti-maidan.

Because I don't see reasons for mental healthy human to support "this". And even Russian journalists who were making an investigation, said that those people just want money and nothing more.

I wouldn't expect you to understand the other side's opinion. I doubt they understand yours.

That's why there's violence.

[andyt]

Gunnair Gunnair:

PostFactum PostFactum:

andyt andyt:

Certainly a better response than his claim that anybody who is pro-Russian has been bribed or is a Russian agent. A significant number of people in the East did not support events in Kyiv, are doing an anti-maidan.

Because I don't see reasons for mental healthy human to support "this". And even Russian journalists who were making an investigation, said that those people just want money and nothing more.

I wouldn't expect you to understand the other side's opinion. I doubt they understand yours.

That's why there's violence.

Amen.

Doubt it's all about money. This has exposed a deep ethnic/linguistic/what have you rift. People will cleave to the people they feel connected to, despite money. It will also probably be very hard to stuff that particular genie back in the bottle. In a way the separatists have already won.

[PostFactum]

Gunnair Gunnair:

PostFactum PostFactum:

andyt andyt:

Certainly a better response than his claim that anybody who is pro-Russian has been bribed or is a Russian agent. A significant number of people in the East did not support events in Kyiv, are doing an anti-maidan.

Because I don't see reasons for mental healthy human to support "this". And even Russian journalists who were making an investigation, said that those people just want money and nothing more.

I wouldn't expect you to understand the other side's opinion. I doubt they understand yours.

That's why there's violence.

There is one good example: city called Charkiv, it's on East. It's mayor is famous in criminal community man. His name is Kernes, Russians were giving money to criminal groups of this cities to support violence on East, he took those money and didn't give them to separatists in Charkiv. Separatists were in city for 2 months, didn't receive all money for this time and went away from city. They stand there not for ideas, they are there for money.

[Gunnair]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Gunnair Gunnair:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Because I don't see reasons for mental healthy human to support "this". And even Russian journalists who were making an investigation, said that those people just want money and nothing more.

I wouldn't expect you to understand the other side's opinion. I doubt they understand yours.

That's why there's violence.

There is one good example: city called Charkiv, it's on East. It's mayor is famous in criminal community man. His name is Kernes, Russians were giving money to criminal groups of this cities to support violence on East, he took those money and didn't give them to separatists in Charkiv. Separatists were in city for 2 months, didn't receive all money for this time and went away from city. They stand there not for ideas, they are there for money.

Yeah....believe it or not, some people will be bought out. That's the idea the stand for.

[andyt]

Some people. With at least 30% of Eastern Ukrainians supporting the separatists to some degree, doubt if even the oligarchs can afford to bribe them all.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Some people. With at least 30% of Eastern Ukrainians supporting the separatists to some degree, doubt if even the oligarchs can afford to bribe them all.

Ahmetov took, already gives them money.