[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

DD. You are obviously a decent chap and really, if more Muslims in the UK, Canada and the US were like you and were confronting the idiots that use Islam as a cover, there wouldn't be this terrible perception of Muslims being jihadis within.

Unfortunately you in a minority. I don't know if you have heard of Tarek Fatah in Canada. I have a lot of time for him and his message of moderation. He challenges the idiots but he's a lone voice at the moment.

Until people like you and Fatah become the mainstream voice of Islam, we will be suspicious of overly religious Muslims.

I like to think decent Muslims are actually the majority. But until decent Muslims, especially in the west, stand up and speak out strongly against he nutbars, their decency isn't much use. Just keeping your head down, hoping it will go away just is really a form of support for the jihadis. Just like decent Germans kept their heads down - look at what that got them. A country that went beserk, lots of pain and suffering all around.

Yeah, but don't forget that standing up can cost you your life... That was the case in Germany, and is the case here too.
Girls who are "westernized" get killed by their brothers or fathers, women who don't want to wear their "cultural" habit are killed by their husbands...

I remember the muslim women at the school play ground cry on my shoulder when 9/11 happened. They were just as shocked as anyone else (none of them wore a niqab, btw), and when Pim Fortuyn was shot, we ALL hoped it was not "another muslim" who did it. Then Theo van Gogh, who WAS killed by a muslim. He still shows no remource and is proud of his act. Anyway, the muslims I talked to ALL condemned this, they were appalled that this was done "in name of Allah".
They also do not see any use in wearing a niqab. A headscarf is enough, in their opinion. And a long skirt, but not a tent.

Once again, even in France, it is the fundamentalist minority that yells the loudest. I would not be surprised if it were "converted muslims" that are yelling the loudest... (hoping I used the right wording, I meant muslims that are not born a muslim, or in a muslim country, but became muslim)

[desertdude]

I seriously don't know what the situation across the pond is but I would like to believe there arn't many nutjobs just that the few who are getting the spotlight more.

Yes I would agree that everyone should speak out at every possible occasion against such boobs.

I guess I would also blame the media for giving more attention to such boobs and loons rather than the normal ones. But then again that's not sensational and wouldn't sell.

I think true unity comes when every realises that although we are all the same yet we are diffrent and learn to accept and respect those diffrences.

Just like men and women. Although we are the same, equal, but yet different on so many levels, in terms of thinking, needs and requirements. And the most happiest couples are the ones who realise this and get along fablously.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

Cheers

[desertdude]

P.S : Thanks for pointing out Tarek Fatah, I had never heard about him until today. I've read briefly about him and downloading one of his youtube interviews. From the 5 mins of the half hour interview about chasing the mirage and wiki article. I can clearly say we almost think alike and share the same views.

He also has some very interesting things to say, alright now back to youtube.

Cheers

[RUEZ]

I saw my first woman wearing a niqab today. I was disgusted. It was 25 degrees in Prince George and the man she was with was wearing a t-shirt and shorts. Rather than ban things however we need to educate. We need to educate woman and let them know they have choices and in Canada they aren't the property of a man. We also need to educate the men that think women belong to them. I don't care much for a culture that follows this practice.

[desertdude]

RUEZ RUEZ:

I saw my first woman wearing a niqab today. I was disgusted. It was 25 degrees in Prince George and the man she was with was wearing a t-shirt and shorts. Rather than ban things however we need to educate. We need to educate woman and let them know they have choices and in Canada they aren't the property of a man. We also need to educate the men that think women belong to them. I don't care much for a culture that follows this practice.

See that's another knee jerk reaction. In one broad swipe you have come to the conclusion, that she some uneducated retard who cannot think for herself, is the property of the man and the man thinks she is her property, you don't like that culture/religion and probally a few more you didn't care to mention and instant flashes of women's rights and oppression of women whizzed by in your mind.

Maybe your right, but maybe your wrong. Ever wondered maybe it is she who chooses to dress like this and a million dollars couldn't not convince her to dress otherwise. An example I'll give you about this Turkish teenager who refused the head scarf ban in turkey and would not at any cost be seen without it, but had to continue he4r education. So she shaved her head and vowed to keep it that way until she graduated.

You felt disgusted and feels she needed to be educated on womens freedom. Did you go up to her and talk aand try to educate her ?

Let me ask you another question, have you felt any of those feelings that you felt today when you see a nun in her Habit. Did you feel disgusted then, do you feel the nun was being oppressed and her freedom being denied or that did you feel the need to educate her and present her with better options ?

All I'm tyring to say is think before start to pass judgement and come to hap hazard conclusions. If you don't like it and don't care for the culture that's perfectly fine and your right. Just don't start to read into something that might not be there.

Cheers

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Let me ask you another question, have you felt any of those feelings that you felt today when you see a nun in her Habit. Did you feel disgusted then, do you feel the nun was being oppressed and her freedom being denied or that did you feel the need to educate her and present her with better options ?

I can control those feelings and thoughts. It's just the one, where I visualize the stupid, idolatrous, heretic-bitch going to hell fire for all eternity....or maybe my thoughts are coloured a little by the principal of the Dominican school my son attended. I think some of the Buddhist and Catholic parents have the same fervent wish too. Religious orders are all voluntary and many nuns today don't wear a wimple or a habit, just regular street clothes...albeit of a more conservative cut. The chaplain at my eldest son's former school has long hair and a beard, and all you ever see him wearing are jeans and a t shirt, except at mass, where he puts his robes over his street clothes.

[kenmore]

Desertdude! you are missing the big point with all these comments. We don't have and don't want this type of crap here in Canada. They as you say " come here for a better life" and we try and give it to them.. but they have to fit in and here we don't cover our faces other than on halloween. So if you want to come here at least try and integrate.. if you want to wear a bag over your head at home ..ok.. but not in public.. And dude... even the Islamic society of Canada wants them banned..

[kenmore]

And... the issue of nuns in habits is a total different issue.. they don't wear them in Canada any more unless they are living in a convent or cloistered.
Nuns take vows to God and therefore are in a sense married to him.. Muslim women are not free to make choices regarding Niqabs.. It might surprise you desertdude, but I do have Muslim friends and as a nurse I work with Muslim doctors. I do ask questions. My friend who I have known for many years had an arranged marriage and his wife came here about 5 yrs ago from Egypt. She wore one and he made her take it off. He said she lived in Canada now and should look like the rest of the women in our society. He also wanted her to be able to work as a pharmacist assistant at the hospital. She does and they have integrated well here.

[RUEZ]

desertdude desertdude:

Let me ask you another question, have you felt any of those feelings that you felt today when you see a nun in her Habit. Did you feel disgusted then, do you feel the nun was being oppressed and her freedom being denied or that did you feel the need to educate her and present her with better options ?

All I'm tyring to say is think before start to pass judgement and come to hap hazard conclusions. If you don't like it and don't care for the culture that's perfectly fine and your right. Just don't start to read into something that might not be there.

Cheers

I've never seen a nun, but if I do I would not be offended in the least. I know without a doubt that a woman makes a fully thought out decision on whether or not to join the church as a nun. It is not a decision someone else can or would make for her. She also doesn't have to hide her face. The habit is more a religious uniform than a tool to hide a woman from the eyes of other men.

I am also against a full ban because I am sure some women choose to wear the niqab, but I do believe we need to educate them to teach them they aren't property. They have a right to wear as much or as little as they choose. My preference being as little as possible.

[kenmore]

Common! we all know this is not a choice no matter what they say.. remember this guy is male right. if they had a choice would we have some being offed by drowning or being drowned in the locks at Kingston Mills? would be have a father and brother on trial for murdering their child because she wanted to wear what all the other girls were wearing at school? There was a 2hr program on the radio about the abuse of south asian women from husbands who demaned they wear them.. anyone who said this is a choice is full of shit! the women who say it is are afraid of being offed or having the crap kicked out of them... I don't understand how they can immigrate to a western society and expect the kids not to westernize.. they need to get their heads out of their asses!

[andyt]

desertdude desertdude:

See that's another knee jerk reaction. In one broad swipe you have come to the conclusion, that she some uneducated retard who cannot think for herself, is the property of the man and the man thinks she is her property, you don't like that culture/religion and probally a few more you didn't care to mention and instant flashes of women's rights and oppression of women whizzed by in your mind.

Maybe your right, but maybe your wrong. Ever wondered maybe it is she who chooses to dress like this and a million dollars couldn't not convince her to dress otherwise. An example I'll give you about this Turkish teenager who refused the head scarf ban in turkey and would not at any cost be seen without it, but had to continue he4r education. So she shaved her head and vowed to keep it that way until she graduated.

You felt disgusted and feels she needed to be educated on womens freedom. Did you go up to her and talk aand try to educate her ?

Let me ask you another question, have you felt any of those feelings that you felt today when you see a nun in her Habit. Did you feel disgusted then, do you feel the nun was being oppressed and her freedom being denied or that did you feel the need to educate her and present her with better options ?

All I'm tyring to say is think before start to pass judgement and come to hap hazard conclusions. If you don't like it and don't care for the culture that's perfectly fine and your right. Just don't start to read into something that might not be there.

Cheers

If Muslims spent half the energy looking critically at their own culture and religion that they spend defending their co-religious fruit cakes, the world would be a better place indeed. The only criticism I hear from Muslims (except for a few notable exceptions like Fatah, Ali (tho she has renounced Islam) and a few others) are the fruit cakes criticizing the moderates for not being fruit cake enough. The moderates never seem to answer back. It always makes me wonder just how moderate they are.