[Mustang1]

angler57 angler57:

Voltaire said; To paraphrase.
I may disagree with what you say. But, I will defend to the death your right to say it.
These words are printed on the Op-Ed pages of many newspapers. Good words to live by.

You're not writing an Op-Ed, but thanks for playing. Oh...and to quote-mine (the fact that Voltaire's authorship of this oft-quoted line is in major question - funny, that you messed up again) one of the Enlightenment's biggest critics of religion (he was a big proponent of reason) in this thread is priceless.

[Mustang1]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

PostFactum PostFactum:

No of cource it will change, yes, dog will be a dog but we will know more about them that now, we will have another poin of view on them, here is changing.

But the dog will still be a dog - our understanding of it might change but that is based on independently verifiable empirical data - whereas religion will not. What major theological changes will (or did) occur in Christian theology based on empirical evidence?

Religion will be called religion too. Cruisaders were, the've used it to conquer rich islamic countries.

But it won't be the same religion - that's the point. Science will still be science...whereas religion will again change and when you think about it, how can that be?

[PostFactum]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

PostFactum PostFactum:

No of cource it will change, yes, dog will be a dog but we will know more about them that now, we will have another poin of view on them, here is changing.

But the dog will still be a dog - our understanding of it might change but that is based on independently verifiable empirical data - whereas religion will not. What major theological changes will (or did) occur in Christian theology based on empirical evidence?

Religion will be called religion too. Cruisaders were, the've used it to conquer rich islamic countries.

But it won't be the same religion - that's the point. Science will still be science...whereas religion will again change and when you think about it, how can that be?

So you don't believe that science will change?

[Mustang1]

PostFactum PostFactum:

So you don't believe that science will change?

Its core methodology won't - it will always involve the search for knowledge based on independently verifiable objective evidence.

Religion will change...science won't. Our understanding of our world, even scientific disciplines, will undoubtedly change, but that's due to the scientific method, not despite it.

[ShepherdsDog]

Playing the Devil's Advocate a bit

$1:

Science will still be science...whereas religion will again change and when you think about it, how can that be?

But won't religion still be religion, even if it changes?

$1:

one of the Enlightenment's biggest critics of religion

Wasn't Voltaire a deist? They believed that proof of God's existence was everywhere in the natural world, that natural order was an expression of a creator. To a deist, science was all that was needed to prove God existed, not the supernatural clap trap of divine intervention, prophets, virgin births and such. The universe was created by a god and then left to its own.

[Mustang1]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

Science will still be science...whereas religion will again change and when you think about it, how can that be?

But won't religion still be religion, even if it changes?

Will Christianity still be Christianity if it's demonstrated that there was no historical Jesus?

Science will still keep going if its demonstrated that meteorites provided that spark for life on earth. It's not dependent on such issues for its legitimacy

[commanderkai]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Tts core methodology won't - it will always involve the search for knowledge based on independently verifiable objective evidence.

Religion will change...science won't. Our understanding of our world, even scientific disciplines, will undoubtedly change, but that's due to the scientific method, not despite it.

And what is religion but the search of a greater purpose for one self? To give meaning for the daily grind of life, or what happens after death. So on so forth. Even if religions, the way religion is practiced, or which religion is dominant changes, the core aspects of all faith (dealing with one's purpose or the afterlife, or the myriad of other reasons people have faith) stay constant.

[Mustang1]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Playing the Devil's Advocate a bit

$1:

Science will still be science...whereas religion will again change and when you think about it, how can that be?

But won't religion still be religion, even if it changes?

$1:

one of the Enlightenment's biggest critics of religion

Wasn't Voltaire a deist? They believed that proof of God's existence was everywhere in the natural world, that natural order was an expression of a creator. To a deist, science was all that was needed to prove God existed, not the supernatural clap trap of divine intervention, prophets, virgin births and such. The universe was created by a god and then left to its own.

I specifically wrote "religion" as in the superstructure of the Church, its practices and its conduct. Voltaire was a rationalist...in fact, his deism is grounded very much in its historical milieu (which is a radical departure from Medieval superstition - i doubt very much he'd still be a deist today (although that is pure conjecture on my part)

[Mustang1]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Tts core methodology won't - it will always involve the search for knowledge based on independently verifiable objective evidence.

Religion will change...science won't. Our understanding of our world, even scientific disciplines, will undoubtedly change, but that's due to the scientific method, not despite it.

And what is religion but the search of a greater purpose for one self? To give meaning for the daily grind of life, or what happens after death. So on so forth. Even if religions, the way religion is practiced, or which religion is dominant changes, the core aspects of all faith (dealing with one's purpose or the afterlife, or the myriad of other reasons people have faith) stay constant.

Religion is perhaps a "personal" quest for truth, but it is NOT a truth based on independently verifiable objective facts. BIG difference.

[commanderkai]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Will Christianity still be Christianity if it's demonstrated that there was no historical Jesus?

Science will still keep going if its demonstrated that meteorites provided that spark for life on earth. It's not dependent on such issues for its legitimacy

Christianity isn't the only religion in existence. Would Christianity possibly end from that? Sure. Would Judaism or Hinduism or the great diversity of other faiths die off because of that revelation? No.

Types of scientific study, like alchemy have died off because they were faulty. Science continues on. Religions have died off because of lack of believers, but religion carries on. If Christianity is proved false, the questions people have about the afterlife, the purpose or the meaning of their particular lives still exist.

[Brenda]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Will Christianity still be Christianity if it's demonstrated that there was no historical Jesus?

Science will still keep going if its demonstrated that meteorites provided that spark for life on earth. It's not dependent on such issues for its legitimacy

Christianity isn't the only religion in existence. Would Christianity possibly end from that? Sure. Would Judaism or Hinduism or the great diversity of other faiths die off because of that revelation? No.

Types of scientific study, like alchemy have died off because they were faulty. Science continues on. Religions have died off because of lack of believers, but religion carries on. If Christianity is proved false, the questions people have about the afterlife, the purpose or the meaning of their particular lives still exist.

Hmmm, I don't know. If everything you believed in all your life turns out to be false, wouldn't you just turn your back, instead of still believing that some that was taught my be true?
If Christ turns out to be a lie, your life turns out to be a lie, because you based your life on serving Christ/God...

Is the question about the purpose of life or the meaning of life necessarily a religious one?

[QBC]

[QBC]

[Wada]

As a, mythic hero, Christ will survive as long as there is someone who believes.

[Mustang1]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Will Christianity still be Christianity if it's demonstrated that there was no historical Jesus?

Science will still keep going if its demonstrated that meteorites provided that spark for life on earth. It's not dependent on such issues for its legitimacy

Christianity isn't the only religion in existence. Would Christianity possibly end from that? Sure. Would Judaism or Hinduism or the great diversity of other faiths die off because of that revelation? No.

Types of scientific study, like alchemy have died off because they were faulty. Science continues on. Religions have died off because of lack of believers, but religion carries on. If Christianity is proved false, the questions people have about the afterlife, the purpose or the meaning of their particular lives still exist.

True...that's been my point all along...religions come and go, whereas Science remains that same (it's still about independently verifiable facts) and if Christianity is demonstrated to be false, what's to stop people from turning to science for answers to the afterlife? Doesn't that demonstrate well the thread's topic?