[PublicAnimalNo9]

"Critics say the program's "draconian" eligibility rules are responsible for people slipping through the cracks into poverty while the federal government uses the money to finance tax cuts to corporations, and other things."

Elegibility rules that were put in place by the previous Liberal government thank you very much.

[BeaverFever]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

"Critics say the program's "draconian" eligibility rules are responsible for people slipping through the cracks into poverty while the federal government uses the money to finance tax cuts to corporations, and other things."

Elegibility rules that were put in place by the previous Liberal government thank you very much.

Yeah, so? The Chretien-Martin Liberals were very fiscally conservative and did more to dismantle the welfare state than any previous government of any political stripe.

[BeaverFever]

Also, with respect to Japan, while economic growth slowed during the "lost decade," GDP never fell below the peak of the pre-crisis bubble and unemployment never went above 5.5 percent. So it was the abandoment of Keynesiansism and the tolerance for financial speculation that Keynes warned about that caused their economic crisis. Keyensian practices of temporarily restoring the role of government was the ultimate way out.

$1:

With private borrowing and spending frozen, the Japanese government stepped in, spending on highways, bridges and other infrastructure, and running up big deficits. Where the Japanese government erred, Koo says, was in worrying about those deficits. It cut back prematurely on the stimulus. The economy faltered, and the government had to resume spending.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101066132

[Curtman]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Recession ain't over til its over:

$1:

Job losses deeper than feared
The recession and the rain hammered summer-student employment and eliminated 45,000 jobs in July – pushing the total job losses since the onset of the downturn to 414,000, Statistics Canada said.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/job-losses-deeper-than-feared/article1244299/#

I'm so glad I moved back to Manitoba.. We don't do recessions here.

Manitoba Employment Rates Outshine Others

$1:

Falk says since October 2008, Manitoba has created 1,000 jobs, the best performance relative to the other provinces.

[Proculation]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's not true that it never worked...Keynesian economic theory dominated from the end of the Great Depression through the "golden age of capitalism" and the longest ever period of recorded growth that lasted until the late 60's - early 70's.

The Japanese recession was triggered by a build-up of bad debt in the country's banking system. Like the US today, money had been borrowed using inflated property values as security. Also like the US, the world was assured that safeguards were in place and that any failing bank would be helped out by others, through what was known as the 'convoy system'.

Japan tried many tactics from all sides of the political spectrum to recover, bank bail-outs, re-regulation and stimulus spending were among them. A large part of why it took nearly a decade to recover is because the government would not commit to one course of action and often took only half steps in any direction. But there's still a reason that Toyota and Honda and Sony are out-competing American competitors: the Keynesian-Fordist principles are still much more prominent over there. The country has high unionization rates, long-term relationships with its principle shareholders, among whom its labour unions and long-term business partners are included and a graduated pay scale for its executive class that doesn't have multi-millionaire CEO's focusing on short-term stock performance instead of long-term business performance.

Keynesianism never worked. That's what prolonged the Great Depression. Hoover was doing the good thing and then with the spending of FDR, they went further into debt triggering the Great Depression. What I'm afraid of is that the same thing will happen again with Obama. We are getting out of recession but all his spending can trigger the whole world into a depression.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

That's assuming you HAVE a government that understands what their role is supposed to be.
Based on the last 20 years experience, the governments at various levels have failed miserably.
"Stimulus Package" has been a buzzword for years now and it creates false promises.
Creating temporary jobs ie: fixng roads and bridges is not going to kick the economy into gear. These shouldn't even NEED a stimulus package. What the hell do I pay all that tax on gasoline for? Or all the other taxes that are supposed to be earmarked specifically FOR infrastructure upkeep?
"Stimulating" temporary work is akin to trying to fix a dam with bubble gum. You take care of a tiny little section but it's not going to last long.
Personally? Harper spending $10 billion of taxpayer money to bail out the automotive sector(specifically GM) to keep permanent jobs is a better deal than spending it to create temporary "make work" projects.(don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm thrilled about the bailout either)
The money could also be used to create permanent industry. We have a lot of coastline here and a naval tradition. How about we get into shipbuilding? Or jump back into the aerospace game. Both are attainable with the full weight of our resources and technology. But what we need are leaders with the courage of conviction. Leaders with foresight to see beyond the next election.
Not some shmuck that believes we think reforming EI is going to save people a year after they lost their jobs, and short term projects will save us from the recession.

[DerbyX]

Proculation Proculation:

Keynesianism never worked. That's what prolonged the Great Depression. Hoover was doing the good thing and then with the spending of FDR, they went further into debt triggering the Great Depression. What I'm afraid of is that the same thing will happen again with Obama. We are getting out of recession but all his spending can trigger the whole world into a depression.

What about Harpers and his spending affect on Canada?

[Proculation]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Proculation Proculation:

Keynesianism never worked. That's what prolonged the Great Depression. Hoover was doing the good thing and then with the spending of FDR, they went further into debt triggering the Great Depression. What I'm afraid of is that the same thing will happen again with Obama. We are getting out of recession but all his spending can trigger the whole world into a depression.

What about Harpers and his spending affect on Canada?

Same thing. Stupid spendings. I'm non-partisan. I voted for Harper but next time he won't get my vote because of that.

[BeaverFever]

Proculation Proculation:

Keynesianism never worked. That's what prolonged the Great Depression. Hoover was doing the good thing and then with the spending of FDR, they went further into debt triggering the Great Depression. What I'm afraid of is that the same thing will happen again with Obama. We are getting out of recession but all his spending can trigger the whole world into a depression.

Sorry that's total right-wing BS from the same people who brought you the current recession and such "popular wisdom" gems as "Martin Luther King was a Republican," "Saddam Hussein was involved with Al Qaeda can stike American soil with WMDs within 45 minutes" and "Obama is a secret muslim who wasn't born in the USA".

FDR wasn't even President when the Great Depression started. The Great Depression occurred after the 1929 stock market crash under Hoover and the "wisdom" of the laissez-faire financial crowd. FDR's spending produced an immediate economic result, the only backslide was when poltical right-wingers rallied in 1937 and got him to water down his reforms. Check out these two charts:

$1:

Did you hear FDR prolonged the Great Depression?
Conservatives' newest talking point -- designed to stop Congress from passing an economic stimulus package -- is breathtaking.

By David Sirota


[T]he right bases its New Deal revisionism on the short-lived recession in a year straddling 1937 and 1938. But that was four years into Roosevelt's term -- four years marked by spectacular economic growth. Additionally, the fleeting decline happened not because of the New Deal's spending programs, but because Roosevelt momentarily listened to conservatives and backed off them. As Nobel-winning economist Paul Krugman notes, in 1937-38, FDR "was persuaded to balance the budget" and "cut spending and the economy went back down again."

To be sure, you can credibly argue that the New Deal had its share of problems. But overall, the numbers prove it helped -- rather than hurt -- the macroeconomy. "Excepting 1937-1938, unemployment fell each year of Roosevelt's first two terms [while] the U.S. economy grew at average annual growth rates of 9 percent to 10 percent," writes University of California historian Eric Rauchway.

What about the New Deal's most "massive government intervention" -- its financial regulations? Did they prolong the Great Depression in ways the official data didn't detect?

Nope.

According to Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke, "Only with the New Deal's rehabilitation of the financial system in 1933-35 did the economy begin its slow emergence from the Great Depression." In fact, even famed conservative economist Milton Friedman admitted that the New Deal's Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. was "the structural change most conducive to monetary stability since ... the Civil War."

OK -- if the verifiable evidence proves the New Deal did not prolong the Depression, what about historians -- do they "pretty much agree" on the opposite?

Again, no.

As Newsweek's Daniel Gross reports, "One would be very hard-pressed to find a serious professional historian who believes that the New Deal prolonged the Depression."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/01/02/sirota_fdr_depression/

[Bruce_the_vii]

Oh, this deficit spending is suppose to promote "consume confidence" which is hard to tack down. The Canadian housing market is recovering and the housing market leads the economy so who can say.

[Curtman]

Even I find this funny... Iggy is doing his part to stimulate the economy today I guess..

Iggy Iggy:

Just bought some lemonade from this entrepreneurial young lady who set up a lemonade stand in front of her house. // Nous venons de boire une limonade achetée d'une petite fille bien débrouillarde qui a ouvert son propre kiosque.

This twitter thing is great.. Hahah