[hurley_108]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

July 17th at 14,000 feet shows as the coolest July 17th of the past 10 years.

This claim isn't even correct. July 17 at 14,000 feet is the WARMEST July 17th:

0:

14kftjul17.PNG [ 77.8 KiB | Viewed 97 times ]

[DerbyX]

The satellites show cooling ...

Or do they?

$1:

There are a few advantages to the satellite readings,mainly the more uniform global coverage and the fact that readings can be taken at different altitudes. However, it is an extremely complicated process which uses microwaves emitted by the oxygen in the atmosphere as a proxy for temperature.

The complications arise from many things, including decay of the satellite orbits, splicing together and calibrating records from different instruments, trying to separate the signals by the layer of atmosphere they originate from, etc. It is a little ironic that the same people who distrust the surface record so happily embrace this even-more-convoluted exercise in data processing!

Anyway, it has been many years since the satellite analysis showed cooling.

Until recently, though, one of the many analyses of tropospheric temperatures did show very little warming and was in direct contradiction to model predictions that say the troposphere should warm significantly in an enhanced greenhouse environment. Something had to be wrong, the observations or the model predictions. Naturally, the skeptics had no doubt it was the models that were off.

However, it turns out that additional errors were uncovered and the MSU Satellite temperature analysis now shows warming well in line with model expectations. Real Climate has a good rundown of the technical details for those with the stomach for it. In short, this long-running debate turned out to be a great validation of the models and a real death blow to the "earth is not warming" crowd.

Bart, for somebody who thinks humanity is having no effect on the climate and any warming is simply natural you seem to try very hard to convince us its not warming.

[ASLplease]

the data for June is brand new, at best there is no general concensus, they haven't had time to review it.

[N_Fiddledog]

So I guess if NOAA's hysterical press release about June was so important you guys will want us to know about this one.

$1:

A brutal and historical cold snap has so far caused 80 deaths in South America, according to international news agencies. Temperatures have been much below normal for over a week in vast areas of the continent. In Chile, the Aysen region was affected early last week by the worst snowstorm in 30 years. The snow accumulation reached 5 feet in Balmaceda and the Army was called to rescue people trapped by the snow.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/20/c ... ng-memory/

[DerbyX]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

So I guess if NOAA's hysterical press release about June was so important you guys will want us to know about this one.

$1:

A brutal and historical cold snap has so far caused 80 deaths in South America, according to international news agencies. Temperatures have been much below normal for over a week in vast areas of the continent. In Chile, the Aysen region was affected early last week by the worst snowstorm in 30 years. The snow accumulation reached 5 feet in Balmaceda and the Army was called to rescue people trapped by the snow.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/20/c ... ng-memory/

Perhaps if you read the factual press release rather then dismiss it as a hysterical one you have realized that they posted it as a world wide average. That a specific region had record cold, or rather record snow fall with abnormally low temps is meaningless. If this had been "Utah has hottest June ever" then you would have a point. As it is you just come off sounding trite and uninformed. I expected a better response then this.

I guess the facts are getting harder to dismiss.

[hurley_108]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

So I guess if NOAA's hysterical press release about June was so important you guys will want us to know about this one.

$1:

A brutal and historical cold snap has so far caused 80 deaths in South America, according to international news agencies. Temperatures have been much below normal for over a week in vast areas of the continent. In Chile, the Aysen region was affected early last week by the worst snowstorm in 30 years. The snow accumulation reached 5 feet in Balmaceda and the Army was called to rescue people trapped by the snow.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/20/c ... ng-memory/

I haven't argued anything based on one record weather event, or even one exceptional year or month taken as a whole. Bart has, though, and cocked it up forgetting that on the negative side of 0°, smaller absolute values are warmer than larger absolute values.

[ASLplease]

I still havent taken our window AC out of the closet. Its been very comfortable here with regular ventilation.

[hurley_108]

ASLplease ASLplease:

I still havent taken our window AC out of the closet. Its been very comfortable here with regular ventilation.

I guess that proves global warming is over.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I'm open to wagering the next ten years will be cooler than the last ten years. Any takers?

You're on. Pint of Kilkenny on the line.

[Zipperfish]

ASLplease ASLplease:

If we dont raise taxes and give the money to china, the earth will never get better.

Nice concession speech. You've demonstrated that you don't know what you're talking about, can't be bothered to get off your ass and find out, so you'll just throw a meaningless jibe out. Hey, thanks for showing up though!

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

So I guess if NOAA's hysterical press release about June was so important you guys will want us to know about this one.

$1:

A brutal and historical cold snap has so far caused 80 deaths in South America, according to international news agencies. Temperatures have been much below normal for over a week in vast areas of the continent. In Chile, the Aysen region was affected early last week by the worst snowstorm in 30 years. The snow accumulation reached 5 feet in Balmaceda and the Army was called to rescue people trapped by the snow.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/20/c ... ng-memory/

Mr. Watt must be desperate. It's unusual for him to suggest that regional temerpatures are indicative of global averages. I expect that from the troglodytes, but Watt used to aim higher.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I'm open to wagering the next ten years will be cooler than the last ten years. Any takers?

You're on. Pint of Kilkenny on the line.

Done.

See you July 21, 2020.

[BartSimpson]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

So I guess if NOAA's hysterical press release about June was so important you guys will want us to know about this one.

$1:

A brutal and historical cold snap has so far caused 80 deaths in South America, according to international news agencies. Temperatures have been much below normal for over a week in vast areas of the continent. In Chile, the Aysen region was affected early last week by the worst snowstorm in 30 years. The snow accumulation reached 5 feet in Balmaceda and the Army was called to rescue people trapped by the snow.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/20/c ... ng-memory/

What's interesting here is that increased precipitation is actually indicative of warming that's caused an up-tempo hydrological cycle. I'll be the first to admit that.

But see, that's counter to the AGW belief that global warming causes droughts. Actual warming causes increased precipitation and logically reduces drought and desertification. Desertification is evidence of a reduced hydrological cycle as was seen in the last ice age when portions of northern Europe were reduced to desert and more of the world's surface was desert than is now.

[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

So I guess if NOAA's hysterical press release about June was so important you guys will want us to know about this one.

$1:

A brutal and historical cold snap has so far caused 80 deaths in South America, according to international news agencies. Temperatures have been much below normal for over a week in vast areas of the continent. In Chile, the Aysen region was affected early last week by the worst snowstorm in 30 years. The snow accumulation reached 5 feet in Balmaceda and the Army was called to rescue people trapped by the snow.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/20/c ... ng-memory/

Mr. Watt must be desperate. It's unusual for him to suggest that regional temerpatures are indicative of global averages. I expect that from the troglodytes, but Watt used to aim higher.

God Man, did you not click the link?

$1:

From the “weather is not climate” department,

My point was, if you're going to present a questionable claim on a hot month as evidence we're all gonna die from CO2 induced warming, then any weather nuance becomes evidence of any trend you want to push - warming or cooling.

Watts is a meteorologist, and you'll get news about weather, and climate, but weather always comes with a disclaimer like - "From the “weather is not climate” department".

Anybody who reads Watts knows weather is not climate. The same cannot be said about readers of propaganda press releases pimped out by tainted government, and non-governmental organizations to the mainstream media.

[N_Fiddledog]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What's interesting here is that increased precipitation is actually indicative of warming that's caused an up-tempo hydrological cycle. I'll be the first to admit that.

But see, that's counter to the AGW belief that global warming causes droughts. Actual warming causes increased precipitation and logically reduces drought and desertification. Desertification is evidence of a reduced hydrological cycle as was seen in the last ice age when portions of northern Europe were reduced to desert and more of the world's surface was desert than is now.

Well, that's the thing, eh? Any weather anomaly - wet, dry, hot, cold, stormy, mild is presented as "consistent with the models". The same is true about climate. Did you not hear Hurley a few posts back claiming a 30 year cooling trend would not discredit global warming theory?

So the thing is the theory cannot be falsified. Anything can be offered as evidence in support, but nothing discredits it.

However one of the tenets of the scientific method is you must be able to falsify your theory. Some set of circumstances must exist by which your theory can be proven false in order for it to be considered scientific. With global warming theory this does not exist, so what does that say?