[ziggy]

fifeboy fifeboy:

ziggy ziggy:

They had a food and fuel shortage in the arctic this spring because the ice in hudsons bay froze early.

Well,Right now we have at least 3 barges froze in the Hudsons bay,one didnt even get to leave Churchill,another is froze cock stiff in the bay at Baker lake.So now we have to build ice roads to them to get our supplies. So much for the ice melting early theory of the revs.

There will be another fuel shortage,jet A and B have been virtually impossible to get in the arctic unless its an emergency this year because of the early freeze.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/01/13/winter-roads060113.html

Same thing has happend in Northern Sask the last few years!

Ya,if global warming was responsible for that massive of a change in winter in the north the last 2 years then the planets in huge trouble.I,ve been researching extreme weather from 4 or 5 weather stations in the Arctic going back to 1947 out of curiousity. The coldest years were 1950-1975,and last year,that go's for highest wind gusts and just extreme weather all together.Our guys just went out an hour ago to do ice thickness readings,my guess is they will be thicker than at this time last year.

I dont know how far back El-Nino has been studied or where to find the info,curious as to how it was in those extreme years.Also there are arctic currents that havent been studied that much untill lately,they would change the weather in Europe if they changed even a few degrees.

With all the hysteria over man made global warming a guy has to be able to differentiate between the facts and the bullshit. I find 9 out of ten people in the man made global warming camp have an agenda or bias of some kind or believe everything they hear on tv.

[fifeboy]

ziggy ziggy:

fifeboy fifeboy:

ziggy ziggy:

They had a food and fuel shortage in the arctic this spring because the ice in hudsons bay froze early.

Well,Right now we have at least 3 barges froze in the Hudsons bay,one didnt even get to leave Churchill,another is froze cock stiff in the bay at Baker lake.So now we have to build ice roads to them to get our supplies. So much for the ice melting early theory of the revs.

There will be another fuel shortage,jet A and B have been virtually impossible to get in the arctic unless its an emergency this year because of the early freeze.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/01/13/winter-roads060113.html

Same thing has happend in Northern Sask the last few years!

Ya,if global warming was responsible for that massive of a change in winter in the north the last 2 years then the planets in huge trouble.I,ve been researching extreme weather from 4 or 5 weather stations in the Arctic going back to 1947 out of curiousity. The coldest years were 1950-1975,and last year,that go's for highest wind gusts and just extreme weather all together.Our guys just went out an hour ago to do ice thickness readings,my guess is they will be thicker than at this time last year.

I dont know how far back El-Nino has been studied or where to find the info,curious as to how it was in those extreme years.Also there are arctic currents that havent been studied that much untill lately,they would change the weather in Europe if they changed even a few degrees.

With all the hysteria over man made global warml g a guy has to be able to differentiate between the facts and the bullshit. I find 9 out of ten people in the man made global warming camp have an agenda or bias of some kind or believe everything they hear on tv.

Goodness! I did not say that the lack of cold for building winter roads was "proof" of anything, or even that it indicated anything at all. It is just a counterpoint to the argument being made that an early freeze-up this year shows that global warming is a myth. My own experience with ice thickness on freshwater lakes indicates that snowcover depth is more important than temperature.

[ziggy]

fifeboy fifeboy:

ziggy ziggy:

fifeboy fifeboy:

ziggy ziggy:

They had a food and fuel shortage in the arctic this spring because the ice in hudsons bay froze early.

Well,Right now we have at least 3 barges froze in the Hudsons bay,one didnt even get to leave Churchill,another is froze cock stiff in the bay at Baker lake.So now we have to build ice roads to them to get our supplies. So much for the ice melting early theory of the revs.

There will be another fuel shortage,jet A and B have been virtually impossible to get in the arctic unless its an emergency this year because of the early freeze.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/01/13/winter-roads060113.html

Same thing has happend in Northern Sask the last few years!

Ya,if global warming was responsible for that massive of a change in winter in the north the last 2 years then the planets in huge trouble.I,ve been researching extreme weather from 4 or 5 weather stations in the Arctic going back to 1947 out of curiousity. The coldest years were 1950-1975,and last year,that go's for highest wind gusts and just extreme weather all together.Our guys just went out an hour ago to do ice thickness readings,my guess is they will be thicker than at this time last year.

I dont know how far back El-Nino has been studied or where to find the info,curious as to how it was in those extreme years.Also there are arctic currents that havent been studied that much untill lately,they would change the weather in Europe if they changed even a few degrees.

With all the hysteria over man made global warml g a guy has to be able to differentiate between the facts and the bullshit. I find 9 out of ten people in the man made global warming camp have an agenda or bias of some kind or believe everything they hear on tv.

Goodness! I did not say that the lack of cold for building winter roads was "proof" of anything, or even that it indicated anything at all. It is just a counterpoint to the argument being made that an early freeze-up this year shows that global warming is a myth. My own experience with ice thickness on freshwater lakes indicates that snowcover depth is more important than temperature.

Why is snowcover depth more important then temperature? It's the temps that cause the snow,early snow also insulates ice causeing it to be weaker and to not freeze as fast. Nothing like a frost blanket to keep out the frost.

[fifeboy]

ziggy ziggy:

fifeboy fifeboy:

ziggy ziggy:

fifeboy fifeboy:

ziggy ziggy:

They had a food and fuel shortage in the arctic this spring because the ice in hudsons bay froze early.

Well,Right now we have at least 3 barges froze in the Hudsons bay,one didnt even get to leave Churchill,another is froze cock stiff in the bay at Baker lake.So now we have to build ice roads to them to get our supplies. So much for the ice melting early theory of the revs.

There will be another fuel shortage,jet A and B have been virtually impossible to get in the arctic unless its an emergency this year because of the early freeze.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/01/13/winter-roads060113.html

Same thing has happend in Northern Sask the last few years!

Ya,if global warming was responsible for that massive of a change in winter in the north the last 2 years then the planets in huge trouble.I,ve been researching extreme weather from 4 or 5 weather stations in the Arctic going back to 1947 out of curiousity. The coldest years were 1950-1975,and last year,that go's for highest wind gusts and just extreme weather all together.Our guys just went out an hour ago to do ice thickness readings,my guess is they will be thicker than at this time last year.

I dont know how far back El-Nino has been studied or where to find the info,curious as to how it was in those extreme years.Also there are arctic currents that havent been studied that much untill lately,they would change the weather in Europe if they changed even a few degrees.

With all the hysteria over man made global warml g a guy has to be able to differentiate between the facts and the bullshit. I find 9 out of ten people in the man made global warming camp have an agenda or bias of some kind or believe everything they hear on tv.

Goodness! I did not say that the lack of cold for winter roads was "proof" of anything, or even that it indicated anything at all. It is just a counterpoint to the argument being made that an early freeze-up this year shows that global warming is a myth. My own experience with ice thickness on freshwater lakes indicates that snowcover depth is more important than temperature.

Why is snowcover depth more important then temperature? It's the temps that cause the snow,early snow also insulates ice causeing it to be weaker and to not freeze as fast. Nothing like a frost blanket to keep out the frost.

I have no argument with what you say here. Higher temps tend to create more snowfall. Once the hiemal threshold is reached, snow does an excellent job of insulating the subnivien world. More insulation, less freezing on the lakes. But I believe thats what we both said. Again, my only reason to responding to another one of these yea/nay threads on global warming is to point out that even if transport in the north has been affected by early freeze this year, it was also affected by late freeze-up in a number of recent years.

[sasquatch2]

Re the insulating factor of snow---I recall a few years past the the lake in the Peterborough area were unsafe because the heavy snow 3-4 ft had pulled the frost out of the ice.

As far as the aye/nay argument----the nays have it. Even a shallow examination shows no trend or anomaly outside the natural variability to support a political agenda.

First of all is the long term glaciation/interglacial cycle, on which is superimposed the Dansgaard-Oeschger 1500 year cycle, then there these decadal and duodecadal oceanic cycles----such as the El Nino/la Nina things.

The ayes have weakened their cause with fabricated/fraudulent "studies". "An Inconvenient Truth" did publicize the agenda but despite media suppression----it has backfired due to it's over-the-top fraud and preposterously false claims.

[fifeboy]

sasquatch2 sasquatch2:

Re the insulating factor of snow---I recall a few years past the the lake in the Peterborough area were unsafe because the heavy snow 3-4 ft had pulled the frost out of the ice.

As far as the aye/nay argument----the nays have it. Even a shallow examination shows no trend or anomaly outside the natural variability to support a political agenda.

First of all is the long term glaciation/interglacial cycle, on which is superimposed the Dansgaard-Oeschger 1500 year cycle, then there these decadal and duodecadal oceanic cycles----such as the El Nino/la Nina things.

The ayes have weakened their cause with fabricated/fraudulent "studies". "An Inconvenient Truth" did publicize the agenda but despite media suppression----it has backfired due to it's over-the-top fraud and preposterously false claims.

WHAT, A WHOLE POST WITHOUT THE WORD HOCKEYPUCK?

You may have decided which door you plan to exit the chamber by, but science wants to stay for the whole debate.

[sasquatch2]

Fifeboy

$1:

You may have decided which door you plan to exit the chamber by, but science wants to stay for the whole debate.

Yeah science trumps BS everytime-----AGW is just plain BS. Say Jokulhlaups.

[fifeboy]

sasquatch2 sasquatch2:

Fifeboy

$1:

You may have decided which door you plan to exit the chamber by, but science wants to stay for the whole debate.

Yeah science trumps BS everytime-----AGW is just plain BS. Say Jokulhlaups.

Sorry, I forgot, Jokuhlaups has replaced hockeypuck-wow!
Your problem is you don't seem to understand that the debate on global warming has not ended with a few publications by people who doubt its substance and disregard the fact that there is still a debate going on, choosing to disparage anything that contridicts your narrow views. I don't know why I am wasting my time.

[Blue_Nose]

For those who may be interested, I received some explanation from Environment Canada.

The person recalls technical delays with barges and channel markers that had significant consequences on the already short shipping season and probably resulted in the delay. He didn't seem to think temperatures were at all out of the ordinary and was "surprised to see mother nature blamed in the headlines". He said the season officially closes on Oct. 31st, so there was nothing too extraordinary about this year.

In the end, it sounds like this was nothing more than the transportation company blaming their technical problems on "mother nature".

But hey, according to some, it's necessarily attributed to Global Warming.

[sasquatch2]

Wow! Environment Canada!!!! We are unworthy!!!!

That bunch of tax funded science fiction writers is an authority on zilch.

The debate on Glaobal Warming was declared closed about a year back by the IPCC----were you not paying attention----they had only lowered their estimate of sea-level rise to 12 ft at that time but declared the Polar Bears extinction to occur about 2015. They also said "the science was strong" it was but smell is not everything.

At this point when every graph and claim has been shown to be BS----BN----you are the flat earth society.

[Blue_Nose]

sasquatch2 sasquatch2:

Wow! Environment Canada!!!! We are unworthy!!!!

That bunch of tax funded science fiction writers is an authority on zilch.

The debate on Glaobal Warming was declared closed about a year back by the IPCC----were you not paying attention----they had only lowered their estimate of sea-level rise to 12 ft at that time but declared the Polar Bears extinction to occur about 2015. They also said "the science was strong" it was but smell is not everything.

At this point when every graph and claim has been shown to be BS----BN----you are the flat earth society.

None of that has anything to do with what I posted.

WHAT EARLY FREEZE?

[ziggy]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

For those who may be interested, I received some explanation from Environment Canada.

The person recalls technical delays with barges and channel markers that had significant consequences on the already short shipping season and probably resulted in the delay. He didn't seem to think temperatures were at all out of the ordinary and was "surprised to see mother nature blamed in the headlines". He said the season officially closes on Oct. 31st, so there was nothing too extraordinary about this year.

In the end, it sounds like this was nothing more than the transportation company blaming their technical problems on "mother nature".

But hey, according to some, it's necessarily attributed to Global Warming.

The shipping season here also ends october 31st and I have pics of the barge froze in sept.15th,dont know about the other 2 barges,one didnt get far from Churchill.This isnt ordinary,millions of dollars worth of goods arent going to be put on a barge that may freeze in,these guys do their homework on shipping schedules and freeze up dates.
The company that barges in our stuff sailed the northwest passage when no one else could so I would say their pretty experienced.

[Blue_Nose]

ziggy ziggy:

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

For those who may be interested, I received some explanation from Environment Canada.

The person recalls technical delays with barges and channel markers that had significant consequences on the already short shipping season and probably resulted in the delay. He didn't seem to think temperatures were at all out of the ordinary and was "surprised to see mother nature blamed in the headlines". He said the season officially closes on Oct. 31st, so there was nothing too extraordinary about this year.

In the end, it sounds like this was nothing more than the transportation company blaming their technical problems on "mother nature".

But hey, according to some, it's necessarily attributed to Global Warming.

The shipping season here also ends october 31st and I have pics of the barge froze in sept.15th,dont know about the other 2 barges,one didnt get far from Churchill.This isnt ordinary,millions of dollars worth of goods arent going to be put on a barge that may freeze in,these guys do their homework on shipping schedules and freeze up dates.
The company that barges in our stuff sailed the northwest passage when no one else could so I would say their pretty experienced.

So it was a few weeks early, but it was as much due to the delays as anything.

"At the start of the season, NTCL got started late because of some delays in the shipyard. We didn't start in June as we usually do. We started in July. Because our schedule is so compressed - we have to get to places before freeze-up and can't leave until the ice is gone- it made things very difficult."

NNS

I'm not blaming NTCL for not predicting the ice, but claiming that the early freeze was some extraordinary climatic phenomenon is simply unfounded.

edit: not sure why it's asking for a subscription on that link and not the one from Google, but here's a cache:link fixed

[ziggy]

This is what I mean.

$1:

can't leave until the ice is gone

,it stayed later this year and also came earlier last year.This happened last year also,nothing climatic but it is unusuall.The winter last year was also one of the coldest here,thats why the extra thick ice and late break-up.

looks like a repeat for this winter.Everything will just have to be flown in,makes for very expensive fuel.

[Zipperfish]

fifeboy fifeboy:

sasquatch2 sasquatch2:

Re the insulating factor of snow---I recall a few years past the the lake in the Peterborough area were unsafe because the heavy snow 3-4 ft had pulled the frost out of the ice.

As far as the aye/nay argument----the nays have it. Even a shallow examination shows no trend or anomaly outside the natural variability to support a political agenda.

First of all is the long term glaciation/interglacial cycle, on which is superimposed the Dansgaard-Oeschger 1500 year cycle, then there these decadal and duodecadal oceanic cycles----such as the El Nino/la Nina things.

The ayes have weakened their cause with fabricated/fraudulent "studies". "An Inconvenient Truth" did publicize the agenda but despite media suppression----it has backfired due to it's over-the-top fraud and preposterously false claims.

WHAT, A WHOLE POST WITHOUT THE WORD HOCKEYPUCK?

You may have decided which door you plan to exit the chamber by, but science wants to stay for the whole debate.

HOCKEY PUCKS. Al Gore has a big house, and that proves that climate change is a bunch of crap. the fact is that the scientists are jusrt a bunch of UN commies.

JOKHLAUPS!