[andyt]

As usual you start off with a strawman.

What intellectual property?

As for someone challenging CK's opinion, have at it, but why must this person's opinion be the one that carries weight and invalidates CK?

What he did might very well be a publicity stunt. I don't really care about it either way. I wouldn't have commented about it until you righties started foaming about it. He's free to do what he did, people are free to criticize him for it, but the criticism of him seems over the top to me.

[BartSimpson]

Delwin Delwin:

If he was anti-abortion, pro-gun, pro death penalty, anti-gay and Pro Christian who happens to make a statement on support of black issues that is controversial you label him as left. Thanks for the power to control the free world.

Funny, outside of this forum I haven't heard anyone call the guy left or right at all.

I'm probably just as pissed at the police as this guy is and for the same reasons, but being disrespectful of the flag that represents why the fucking police aren't supposed to be assholes doesn't help.

There's more constructive ways for him to make his point.

Oh, and if you want to REALLY see some people disrespecting the US flag...

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/blacke ... ropaganda/

$1:

Meaning of the Thin Blue Line Flag: The Blue represents the officer and the courage they find deep inside when faced with insurmountable odds. The Black background was designed as a constant reminder of our fallen brother and sister officers. The Line is what police officers protect, the barrier between anarchy and a civilized society, between order and chaos, between respect for decency and lawlessness. Together they symbolize the camaraderie law enforcement officers all share, a brotherhood like none other.

In violation of the US Flag Code:

$1:

The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

So while I think Kaepernick just pissed away his career over a futile gesture I'm MORE offended at the shitstains in so-called 'law enforcement' who disrespect the flag and the law with their self-aggrandizing misuse of a national symbol.

[raydan]

I'd say that they are not violating the US Flag Code because that is not the US flag. Change the colours and it becomes something else.

[Delwin]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Funny, outside of this forum I haven't heard anyone call the guy left or right at all.

No one is going to take your blinders off for you.

[BRAH]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Delwin Delwin:

If he was anti-abortion, pro-gun, pro death penalty, anti-gay and Pro Christian who happens to make a statement on support of black issues that is controversial you label him as left. Thanks for the power to control the free world.

Funny, outside of this forum I haven't heard anyone call the guy left or right at all.

I'm probably just as pissed at the police as this guy is and for the same reasons, but being disrespectful of the flag that represents why the fucking police aren't supposed to be assholes doesn't help.

There's more constructive ways for him to make his point.

Oh, and if you want to REALLY see some people disrespecting the US flag...

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/blacke ... ropaganda/

$1:

Meaning of the Thin Blue Line Flag: The Blue represents the officer and the courage they find deep inside when faced with insurmountable odds. The Black background was designed as a constant reminder of our fallen brother and sister officers. The Line is what police officers protect, the barrier between anarchy and a civilized society, between order and chaos, between respect for decency and lawlessness. Together they symbolize the camaraderie law enforcement officers all share, a brotherhood like none other.

In violation of the US Flag Code:

$1:

The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

So while I think Kaepernick just pissed away his career over a futile gesture I'm MORE offended at the shitstains in so-called 'law enforcement' who disrespect the flag and the law with their self-aggrandizing misuse of a national symbol.

In some departments isn't this type of flag standard on uniforms? Since the NFL doesn't have a problem with players making political statements as Kaepernick isn't the first the Cowboys should put the decal supporting the Dallas Police Department on their helmets and dare Roger Goodell to fine them.

[rickc]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

San Fran is the most left wing city in America by far. Yet when the camera scans the crowd during the National Anthem at the game, all those left wingers are standing.

Uh, just FYI, just because San Fran is a left wing city, doesn't mean a stadium full of NFL fans is left-wing

$1:

If there are things wrong with your country, than you get off your ass and you work to change them.

That's probably what he thinks he's doing.

$1:

Left wingers have died fighting for America. Left wingers are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. Left wingers come home in body bags, paralyzed, and blind as well as right wingers. The enemy does not differentiate. There is no patch on American service members to designate their political leanings. Left wingers know this..they love their country too.

Can you tell your right-wing friends this first, this might be a stunning revelation to them.

It's right wing political correctness because the conservatives are the ones who have a thought police shit fit whenever someone doesn't follow some prescribed patriotic ritual or dares to suggest that may America is created by God to forever be the greatest country on the planet. People decide for themselves how to honour their country and maybe that means standing up for a song and maybe it means refusing to stand for a song. Standing for the national anthem is like putting a tie on to go to a job interview. It has no INHERENT value, only SYMBOLIC value and symbols are subject to interpretation.

Let me say that I think you are a smart man. You have the courage of your convictions. You are always willing to fight the good fight, and I admire that about you. Lately it seems to be you against the rest of the board when it comes to the left vs. the right. If the left needs defending you are the only one to provide inteligent well thought out responses. A few other lefties will throw out some memes or some one liners here and there, but you seem to bear the brunt of the cause. I admire your resolve. You step up to the plate when no one else will. You hang in there and take the abuse even when you are greatly outnumbered. Sometimes I wonder if you really agree with what you are saying, or you are just toeing the party line. Sometimes I feel that you have to represent the left because no one else will. I find myself in the same situation all the time. I am a shop steward at my job. I find myself having to defend members against the company. Some of these members are useless peices of shit. They are totally useless and deserve to be fired. I represent these members because it is my job to do so. I was elected to be a steward and I have an obligation to uphold. My personal views of the member are irrelevant. I do my job to the fullest. However if I were on a site where no one knew who I was like this one, I would say that the member is a useless peice of shit, and should be fired. No one knows me here. I am free to speak my mind here. I do not have to toe the party line here. No one knows you on here. You do not have to toe the line here. My problem with you is how you want to make every discussion into a left vs. right scenario. Everything seems to be black and white with you. There is no grey area. I find that in the real world most things are in shades of grey.

No disrepect to you intended but I feel as though you have some book on what it means to be a left winger, and you do your best to toe the party line on this forum even if you do not agree with it. I have a responsability to defend union members on the clock. Lawyers have a responsibility to defend clients on the clock. Off the clock, I speak my mind (without naming names). You want to put sports fans into one far right wing super patriotic group regardless of where they live. I've lived all over the world and I call bullshit. Look at the sports threads on this forum. Are only rabid right wingers commenting on the threads? No they are not. People of all political stripes watch sports. Sandorski is a left winger, yet he seems to be one of the more knowledgeable members on this forum when it comes to hockey. (On a side note, it has been a while since I have seen him post on this forum. It would be nice if we had some way to know if he is ok.) Stating that sports arenas do not reflect the general population is laughable. I lived in Boston Ma for almost 20 years. I never met another right winger the whole time I was there. Just exactly who do you thing are filling up Fenway park for every game? Gillette stadium? TD Garden? There are not enough right wingers in all of New England to fill any of these arenas. As some of the most hated teams in professional sports, its not like outsiders are coming in to see the games. I can tell you for a fact as someone who lived there (and not some paragraph in a party book) that if you do not stand for National Anthems, someone is going to crack your fucking head open. Its by far the most left wing and yet at the same time patriotic place I have ever lived in my life. You don't have to take my word for it. Go visit Boston. Attend a game and remain sitting during a National Anthem, and see what happens. Video it for us and post it online. Americans care about their National Anthem, regardless of political beliefs. Thats ALL Americans.

No one is required to stand for the National Anthem, and I agree with that. I do not want the police arresting people for not standing. The grief that you will get will come from your fellow citizens, and not your government. You say that standing for the National Anthem has SYMBOLIC value. Sometimes symbols have real meaning in life. I do not agree with everything my government does. I speak out and risk arrest for my views against the government where I disagree with it. However I have RESPECT for the people who gave their lives so I am free to hang out on forums debating what is wrong with the government, or free to stand on a public sidewalk videoing police as they interact with the public. To me that is what the National Anthem is all about. Paying respect to people who served their country. They gave several years of their lives defending the country. I can get off of my fat ass for a few minutes to show some gratitude for their sacrifices. Its called RESPECT. The same respect I show elderly people or pregnant women when I am traveling on a train or bus, and I offer them My seat because they need it more than I do. There is no law saying that I have to give up my seat, I do it because it is the right thing to do, and because I have RESPECT. The world would be a much better place to live if everyone had more respect.

[stratos]

AndyT why are you not all up in arms about Kaepernicks racial slur?

Why are you backing him for his opinion and his actions while denouncing the response and actions of others.

Is it only okay because he is doing what you love to do. Demean the USA?

Once again I'll point out that he did not once refuse to stand over all these years as a player UNTILL he was demoted to 3rd string.

[BRAH]

stratos stratos:

AndyT why are you not all up in arms about Kaepernicks racial slur?

Why are you backing him for his opinion and his actions while denouncing the response and actions of others.

Is it only okay because he is doing what you love to do. Demean the USA?

Once again I'll point out that he did not once refuse to stand over all these years as a player UNTILL he was demoted to 3rd string.

[BartSimpson]

Delwin Delwin:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Funny, outside of this forum I haven't heard anyone call the guy left or right at all.

No one is going to take your blinders off for you.

I don't have any blinders on and keep in mind I moderate on a decidedly right-wing forum and I'm just not seeing anyone calling the guy a leftist. An asshole, sure, but not a leftist.

[BRAH]

No one is saying Kaepernick is on the right or left what they're saying is he's a fucking asshole.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

As usual you start off with a strawman.

What intellectual property?

As for someone challenging CK's opinion, have at it, but why must this person's opinion be the one that carries weight and invalidates CK?

What he did might very well be a publicity stunt. I don't really care about it either way. I wouldn't have commented about it until you righties started foaming about it. He's free to do what he did, people are free to criticize him for it, but the criticism of him seems over the top to me.

He may be free to do whatever the fuck he wants but here's a question. Do you honestly think that if Kapernick was out of uniform and sitting in row 38 seat 23 of Levi's stadium but didn't rise for the anthem this would have been an issue? The answer is emphatically NO What made it an issue was the uniform he was wearing and the place he chose to show his displeasure. A uniform he doesn't own and that he has no legal right to use to further his own agenda because that's technically trademark infringement.

$1:

2. Trade and Service Mark Rights

We (or our affiliates) and our member professional football clubs own all rights in the product names, company names, trade names, logos, product packaging and designs ("Trademarks") of the National Football League and such member clubs, and third parties own all Trademarks in their respective products or services, whether or not appearing in large print or with the trademark symbol. Unauthorized use of any such Trademarks, including reproduction, imitation, dilution or confusing or misleading uses, is prohibited under the trademark laws of the United States and other countries. You are expressly prohibited from using or misusing any Trademarks, except as expressly provided in this Agreement, and nothing otherwise stated or implied in the Services confers on you any license or right to do so.

http://www.nfl.com/help/terms

As for Victor Cruz, nobody said his opinion was more important than Kapernicks. What was said was that he grew up in a black neighbourhood living the black life so his statement wasn't just an opinion based on media driven politics it was an observation about respect and using the improper use of the NFL as a stage for protest and just because you agree with Kapernick doesn't mean Cruz is wrong.

This whole kerfuffle isn't about free speech it's about Kapernick being a hypocrite and using the NFL as his own personal platform. Up till his latest 3 sit-ins,there is zero evidence that he supported any black organisations or charities either financially or with his presence so, his sudden epiphany that, just happened to coincide with his demotion to third string Quarterback makes his actions extremely suspect.

[Lemmy]

$1:

By the time Muhammad Ali died in June, the process was already complete, the sentimentalizing and neutering of a legacy that otherwise would have made a whole lot of Americans uncomfortable.

What a wonderful thing that Ali stood up for his beliefs. What an act of courage to sacrifice so much for a point of principle. He was a beacon, an exemplar, by the end of his life a symbol of unity and acceptance and tolerance, a black American Muslim celebrated as a national hero at the same time as Donald Trump was becoming the presidential nominee of the Republican Party.

A large segment of the population despised Ali, believed that he was a coward in refusing the draft, that he was shirking his duty to his country, that coming from modest beginnings he had become rich and famous in the United States of America and that if he didn’t like that, maybe he ought to move somewhere else.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/backlash-colin-kaepernick-familiar/

I can't recall a thread in a long while that so clearly differentiates the smart people from the dumb ones around here. And I sure miss the before-going-nutty Thanos. I hope he returns sometime.

[xerxes]

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

$1:

By the time Muhammad Ali died in June, the process was already complete, the sentimentalizing and neutering of a legacy that otherwise would have made a whole lot of Americans uncomfortable.

What a wonderful thing that Ali stood up for his beliefs. What an act of courage to sacrifice so much for a point of principle. He was a beacon, an exemplar, by the end of his life a symbol of unity and acceptance and tolerance, a black American Muslim celebrated as a national hero at the same time as Donald Trump was becoming the presidential nominee of the Republican Party.

A large segment of the population despised Ali, believed that he was a coward in refusing the draft, that he was shirking his duty to his country, that coming from modest beginnings he had become rich and famous in the United States of America and that if he didn’t like that, maybe he ought to move somewhere else.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/backlash-colin-kaepernick-familiar/

I can't recall a thread in a long while that so clearly differentiates the smart people from the dumb ones around here. And I sure miss the before-going-nutty Thanos. I hope he returns sometime.

Don't forget the great Jackie Robinson, honored because he talked about not standing for the anthem, but apparently didn't do it. That is the way to achieve social change, talk about it but don't do it.

[Lemmy]

Uppity niggers, the three of them.