[andyt]

$1:

Ukraine separatists defy Putin, push vote

Evidence of tepid support for independence could be found in a new Pew Research poll released Thursday. Consistent with several earlier public opinion surveys, it found that only 30 per cent of those polled in the region wanted to split from Kyiv.

With so many people in eastern Ukraine holding sharply different views, this country's 44 million citizens are tumbling towards a war that could be far bloodier and have far wider consequences for Europe and global security than the Balkan wars 20 years ago.

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Ukra ... story.html

[PostFactum]

For today:

1. Russians are planning to capture Schools on East for their tomorrow voting (For unknown reason few streets in Donezk are voting today).
2. Separatists were shooting to the ambulance, inside was a member of Svoboda party, he was kidnapped.
3. In Donezk main government building separatists have torture chamber. - words of captured by separatists man who escaped.
4. Communist Ukrainian party supports separatists, they use their own flags during separatists meetings.
5. Ukrainian border inspection captures Russians with money, firearms and military clothes.
6. Directors of big East factories say to their workers to vote for Donezka republic or they'll be kicked from job.
7. In Mariupol, separatists captured Ukrainian BMP and put it in fire.

8. Separatists have Russian tank rifles

9. 40 separatists captured civilian office building.
10. Senator of Odesa city parliament is released by police.
11. All victims of Odesa massacre are identified.

[Goober911]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27355085

France and Germany have threatened Russia with further sanctions if Ukraine's presidential election on 25 May fails to go ahead.

President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in a statement they feared further destabilisation of Ukraine.

They also said referendums planned by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine for Sunday would be illegal.

They called for a visible reduction in Russian forces on the Ukrainian border.

Russia is estimated by Nato to have some 40,000 troops near the border, though Moscow says they have been pulled back.

Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov, meanwhile, warned the referendums could result in the "self-destruction" of regions that vote in favour of federalisation.

[PostFactum]

Near Slovyansk were captured terrorists with more there 100 000 voting papers. On all papers were signs "yes" for Donezk republic.

[Goober911]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Near Slovyansk were captured terrorists with more there 100 000 voting papers. On all papers were signs "yes" for Donezk republic.

A typical Russian election.
Much akin to when Saddam Hussein received 100 % of the vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2331951.stm

Iraqi officials say President Saddam Hussein has won 100% backing in a referendum on whether he should rule for another seven years.

There were 11,445,638 eligible voters - and every one of them voted for the president, according to Izzat Ibrahim, Vice-Chairman of Iraq's Revolutionary Command Council.

[PostFactum]

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27355085

France and Germany have threatened Russia with further sanctions if Ukraine's presidential election on 25 May fails to go ahead.

President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in a statement they feared further destabilisation of Ukraine.

They also said referendums planned by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine for Sunday would be illegal.

They called for a visible reduction in Russian forces on the Ukrainian border.

Russia is estimated by Nato to have some 40,000 troops near the border, though Moscow says they have been pulled back.

Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov, meanwhile, warned the referendums could result in the "self-destruction" of regions that vote in favour of federalisation.

Yes, I've heard that, if he will try he will pay a large price.

[PostFactum]

Goober911 Goober911:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Near Slovyansk were captured terrorists with more there 100 000 voting papers. On all papers were signs "yes" for Donezk republic.

A typical Russian election.
Much akin to when Saddam Hussein received 100 % of the vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2331951.stm

Iraqi officials say President Saddam Hussein has won 100% backing in a referendum on whether he should rule for another seven years.

There were 11,445,638 eligible voters - and every one of them voted for the president, according to Izzat Ibrahim, Vice-Chairman of Iraq's Revolutionary Command Council.

In Crimea 34% of all electors have voted, but from those 34% which part voted "for Russia", that's another question.

[PostFactum]

http://tsn.ua/politika/bilya-slov-yanska-zatrimali-ozbroyenih-teroristiv-iz-zapovnenimi-byuletenyami-348876.html Photos.

[PostFactum]

Well, I've read MeganC post, and realized that you don't know about what cities and places I'm talking about, so I've made a map. Red points are cities I'm talking about.

[martin14]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Near Slovyansk were captured terrorists with more there 100 000 voting papers. On all papers were signs "yes" for Donezk republic.

Need to change the format of the ballot paper 3 - 4 times before the 'real'

election, to outfox the counterfeiters.


Have to wonder how they get a look at the 'official' papers.

[Winnipegger]

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27355085
...
Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov, meanwhile, warned the referendums could result in the "self-destruction" of regions that vote in favour of federalisation.

What do they mean by "federalization"?

In Canada and the United States, that means one united country, but regions have a lot of autonomy. Canada has provinces, the United States has states. Details are different, but it means each region has a legislature that can pass laws. Laws passed by a region are subordinate to laws passed by the federal parliament. If a region tries to pass a law that contradicts a federal law, then the regional law is considered invalid.

My understanding is Donetsk is voting for separation, not federalization. So this doesn't make sense.

[PostFactum]

martin14 martin14:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Near Slovyansk were captured terrorists with more there 100 000 voting papers. On all papers were signs "yes" for Donezk republic.

Need to change the format of the ballot paper 3 - 4 times before the 'real'

election, to outfox the counterfeiters.


Have to wonder how they get a look at the 'official' papers.

They have nothing close to official papers, Ukrainian voting papers have signs of defense. One of them is if you will put a lighter under paper, it will get warm and you will see the national coat of arms. This are just simple printed papers.

[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Goober911 Goober911:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27355085
...
Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov, meanwhile, warned the referendums could result in the "self-destruction" of regions that vote in favour of federalisation.

What do they mean by "federalization"?

In Canada and the United States, that means one united country, but regions have a lot of autonomy. Canada has provinces, the United States has states. Details are different, but it means each region has a legislature that can pass laws. Laws passed by a region are subordinate to laws passed by the federal parliament. If a region tries to pass a law that contradicts a federal law, then the regional law is considered invalid.

My understanding is Donetsk is voting for separation, not federalization. So this doesn't make sense.

They mean own money, own language policy. Federation in not for Ukraine, during our history we never had it and ethnically this is not our kind of country. We don't have reasons to be federation. For Ukraine federalization means beginning of the end. For terrorists federalization is cover, be sure next step will be Russia annexation.

[Winnipegger]

When Canada was founded in 1867, our constitution granted provinces authority to protect their unique culture and language. Quebec has passed laws to protect the French language. And recent polls of Ukraine posted to this discussion show 70% of people in eastern Ukraine favour one united country, but a significant portion don't. That sounds like the same proportion in Quebec who want separation. They're a minority, but a significant minority.

We had our FLQ crisis in 1970, with terrorists, a government official murdered, soldiers on our streets. The RCMP (Canada's federal police) found the FLQ were planning to bomb the largest building in Montreal; they had explosives to do it, but RCMP stopped them. We didn't have a superpower on our borders threatening to invade. In fact, the United States wanted us to resolve it, but they didn't interfere. However, French President Charles de Gaulle did give a speech encouraging the separatists in 1967. But he kept silent during the crisis in 1970. So we have "been there, done that".

Federalism isn't so bad. As long as it includes a guarantee that the regions will not under any circumstances separate, that Russia will not annex.

[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Federalism isn't so bad. As long as it includes a guarantee that the regions will not under any circumstances separate, that Russia will not annex.

No my friend, it is bad. Ukrainian nation is specific, federation means death of country. Canadians have strong system, which keeps country together and there are no enemies who want to bite a piece.