[andyt]

stratos stratos:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

stratos stratos:

The Kyiv revolution was about the removal of a Gov. that was so pro Russia that the people wanted a change in leadership not the break up of the country.

Obviously not all the people. Otherwise it wouldn't have been an issue.

I stated later the cause for the Kyiv revolt was that the Gov. had done a major shift from pro west to pro east.

Also the eastern portion of the Ukraine did not rise up to back up the pro Russian leader. Even after he fled they still did not protest or rise up. The eastern portion of the Ukraine rose up only after Russia placed troupes in the Crimea and started instigating situations via propaganda and agents provocateurs aka insurgents.

To imply that the eastern portion rose up over the Kyiv revolt is a red herring. The Russians moved into the Crimea because of the successful Kyiv revolt and said it was do to Russians in the Ukraine needing protection after and only after they moved in did we see the east start to voice decent.

Russia placed troops in Crimea? You mean they weren't there already?

Crimea fell so easily because so many people there supported Russia. In East Ukraine, Russia can stir the shit with a small number of irregulars because there already are large numbers of people supporting Russia. this wasn't helped by the interim govt passing anti-Russian laws. The further the pro-West faction pulled in that direction, the further the pro-Russian faction has pulled in the other. PF is full of shit when he claims the citizens are doing this at the point of a gun.

People were pointing out long ago that tempting Ukraine westward might not be a good idea. I couldn't figure out why, thought the revolution in Kyiv showed the people did not support a pro-Russian, corrupt govt. Turns out, many do, especially since the people in the western govt are just as corrupt. It's split about 50 50 in East Ukraine. Even without Russian interference this would have spelled trouble. Those people can't just be ignored, and now they certainly aren't.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

A 21 year old woman carrying sandwiches for Pro-Russian militants was shot and killed, it is apparently causing an emotional crisis in the area.

The "Arab Spring" started when a street vendor was killed by police.

I've been waiting for such an event to set things off.

If the incinerating of those pro-Russian people in Odessa didn't set things off anymore than they already are, this might not either. Things are already set off. No turning back now.

[andyt]

PostFactum PostFactum:

andyt andyt:

That's where I call bullshit, that the popular support of the people in east Ukraine is at the point of a gun. That's where I say you're biased and I'm more likely to believe the reporters who are actually there. There just aren't enough insurgents in Ukraine to do what you say. You just want to de-legitimize the people who see it differently than you. I can understand many people in Ukraine wanting closer ties with the West. Unfortunately there are also many who want closer ties with Russia. You can't just dismiss them. That's why your country will likely break up, and if you can't manage it peacefully you'll repeat what Yugoslavia did.

You see, you ignore all arguments and switch on parrot mode again.

I ignore biases ones, that the people of east uk are only rising up at the point of a gun. Keep singing lullabies to yourself, it won't help.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

A 21 year old woman carrying sandwiches for Pro-Russian militants was shot and killed, it is apparently causing an emotional crisis in the area.

The "Arab Spring" started when a street vendor was killed by police.

I've been waiting for such an event to set things off.

If the incinerating of those pro-Russian people in Odessa didn't set things off anymore than they already are, this might not either. Things are already set off. No turning back now.

As you only read headlines to form an opinion. As the story is told in the headline, please refer to your earlier post.
Here ya go.
See ya in a few years.
About 11,800,000 results (0.36 seconds

https://www.google.ca/#q=aliens+fathers+child

[andyt]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

A 21 year old woman carrying sandwiches for Pro-Russian militants was shot and killed, it is apparently causing an emotional crisis in the area.

$1:

But the terror of those who mourn her is heartfelt – and it explains much about this crisis. Many people in Donetsk region believe they have been wilfully misunderstood by the outside world and, most of all, by the rest of Ukraine.

For good or ill, more than 80 per cent of them voted for Viktor Yanukovych, the fallen president, in the last election in 2010. After all, he was born in the region and had previously served as governor of Donetsk. Moreover, a large minority of the people in this area – almost 40 per cent – identify themselves as ethnic Russians.
When Mr Yanukovych was overthrown in the revolution in February, supporters in his home area did not see this as the richly deserved downfall of a corrupt, authoritarian leader. Some had indeed come to loathe him, particularly for the shameless theft that was the most striking feature of his rule, but even they tended to believe that the moment to get rid of him would arrive at the election in 2015.

So the consensus in Donetsk was that the revolution was a coup d’état. Worse, people saw that Ukraine’s hardline nationalists had been a part – but only a part – of the campaign that had swept Mr Yanukovych away.
This provided fertile ground for Russia’s formidable propaganda machine. Enraged by the removal of a pliant leader in Kiev, the Kremlin duly set to work to fan the fears of the people of Donetsk. The leaders of the revolution in Kiev were sedulously portrayed not only as illegal usurpers but “fascists” and “extremists”. Day after day, the Russian media gave the impression that Ukraine under the new post-revolutionary order was becoming a “Nazi” state in which no decent citizen could feel safe.

Is all lies. People saying this only because they have guns at their backs or rubles in their pockets. All Ukrainian people are supporting Kyiv government and joining EU. ptui Russia.

[Public_Domain]

[PostFactum]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

LiveLeak video of a gunfight in Ukraine yesterday:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e06_1399345878

Catch the guy at 3:13 with the Dragunov...

If someone last year will show me this and said that it is Ukraine, I would be laughing.

[PostFactum]

Symbol of East Ukrainian fight with Russians.

[Goober911]

PostFactum PostFactum:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

LiveLeak video of a gunfight in Ukraine yesterday:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e06_1399345878

Catch the guy at 3:13 with the Dragunov...

If someone last year will show me this and said that it is Ukraine, I would be laughing.

From what I understand East Ukraine are settling on 1 candidate for the election?

Is western Ukraine running a variety of candidates and splitting the vote?

[PostFactum]

Goober911 Goober911:

PostFactum PostFactum:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

LiveLeak video of a gunfight in Ukraine yesterday:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e06_1399345878

Catch the guy at 3:13 with the Dragunov...

If someone last year will show me this and said that it is Ukraine, I would be laughing.

From what I understand East Ukraine are settling on 1 candidate for the election?

Is western Ukraine running a variety of candidates and splitting the vote?

There are 21 candidate. 2 are very famous people they are Tymoshenko and Poroshenko. Dobkin is pro-Russian (But I'm sure he is not telling that), 5-7 from this list are people that I've heard, but it's 99,9% that they will lose. The names of others I see first time in my life. I don't know who they are, what they propose, etc. Dobkin has no chances too, in addiction I didn't see his commercial on TV, in the internet, newspapers etc. There is another one called Tigipko, he is leader of Region party (those who were rolling as government before revolution) his proposes are pro-Ukrainian, but none is listening, it's enough. So votes will be collected by two pro Ukrainians Tymoshenko and Poroshenko. Poroshenko has very strict position about separatists - shoot like rabbits and as many as possible. That's why Russia is very negative about future Ukrainian elections.

[DrCaleb]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Ukraine crisis: Vladimir Putin says troops pulled back from border

Well, my idea has been floated. This also means Evan is reading our stuff. Hi Evan. :wave:

Yepp, the same here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/07/ukraine-crisis-idUSL6N0NT58F20140507

I see no logic in his actions.

$1:

NATO also said it hadn’t seen “any signs” of a withdrawal of the 40,000 troops that have been massed for weeks just across Ukraine’s 2,300-kilometre border with Russia.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e18505621/

Does it make sense now?

[PostFactum]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Ukraine crisis: Vladimir Putin says troops pulled back from border

Well, my idea has been floated. This also means Evan is reading our stuff. Hi Evan. :wave:

Yepp, the same here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/07/ukraine-crisis-idUSL6N0NT58F20140507

I see no logic in his actions.

$1:

NATO also said it hadn’t seen “any signs” of a withdrawal of the 40,000 troops that have been massed for weeks just across Ukraine’s 2,300-kilometre border with Russia.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e18505621/

Does it make sense now?

He just says but troops are not moving, if it was trick to calm down banks and business partners it was stupid NATO and Ukrainian border army can say what they see. About 11-th of May, it's just trick to show illusion that he is not taking part in this shit. After few hours of Putins announce, separatists said that they'll be making their referendum, and it doesn't matter what Putin is saying. Russia has stepped in crap in public and they are trying to wash it out now.

[andyt]

$1:

Well, if the referendum is at all fair:

DONETSK, Ukraine -- A strong majority of Ukrainians want their country to remain a single, unified state and this is true even in the largely Russian-speaking east where a pro-Russia insurgency has been fighting for autonomy, a poll released Thursday shows.

The poll conducted last month by the Washington-based Pew Research Center found that 77 per cent of people nationwide want Ukraine to maintain its current borders, while nearly as many, or 70 per cent, in the east feel the same. Only among Russian speakers does the percentage drop significantly, but it is still over half at 58 per cent.
The central government in Kyiv has the confidence of only about 41 per cent of Ukrainians, with a sharp divide between the west of the country, where support is 60 per cent, and the east, where it is a low 24 per cent, according to the poll.
Russia, however, is viewed with great suspicion, with three times as many Ukrainians surveyed saying Russia is having a bad influence on their country as say its impact is positive.

In Crimea, which Russia annexed in March following a referendum, 93 per cent of people surveyed expressed confidence in Putin and said Russia was playing a positive role on the peninsula. Their confidence in U.S. President Barack Obama, on the other hand, was recorded at a dismal 4 per cent.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/poll-most-u ... z318FtZHf1


How do the insurgents plan to hold a referendum? They don't control most of the East - life is going on there as usual. They have some checkpoints and hold some buildings. Even in Donetsk. I don't think the interim govt will co-operate with holding a referendum, so this won't settle much of anything.

[PostFactum]

So for today:
1. Leaders of all organizations, and organizers who were taking part in Odesa massacre, were helping with money, resource etc. are arrested. There is even one member of city parliament.
2. Members of NATO and Ukraine said that they don't see Russian troops going back to the Russian ministry of foreign policy. Russians answered that they are "blind" and have to see again video where Putin was saying about it.
3. In Gorlivka, was found body of kidnapped by separatists pro-EU Ukrainian activist.
4. Mariupol main government building is taken by separatists again, building is surrounded by Ukrainian forces.
5. Separatists capture hostages: civil people, usually famous people.
6. In Crimea people have lack of food and water, no jobs - summer season didn't open. Russians say to them that Kyiv is blocking trains with tourists, who go to Crimea.
7. This night group of unknown armored men arrived to the print room, where separatists made and stored vote papers for 11-th of May referendum voting. They destroyed all vote papers and printing machines. None knows who they were.

[DrCaleb]

PostFactum PostFactum:

2. Members of NATO and Ukraine said that they don't see Russian troops going back to the Russian ministry of foreign policy. Russians answered that they are "blind" and have to see again video where Putin was saying about it.

Comrade Putin Romanov says it it so, so it must be true! How dare NATO contradict Him!