[hurley_108]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

sorry your evidence doesn't foot the bill.

Such an erudite response.

[hurley_108]

mtbr mtbr:

People have to get out of the 9 to 5 mentality , it's a 24 hr workday parents can work opposite shifts therefore institutionalized daycare is not needed saving the taxpayer a lot of money.

Plenty of work out there make some sacrifices for the sake of your kids evening shift or weekends won't kill people.

I did it and I have yet to pay a cent to daycare or a babysitter. That extra money from the Conservatives would have been great since one of us was only working part-time for most of that decade. I want my beer and popcorn money.

That's a real nice sentiment. You chose to make sacrifices so you're going to demand that others make them too so that they can have kids that are going to look after you when you're old? Screw that. Besides, what are single parents to do? People are also meant to sleep at night and be awake during the day. It's unreasonable to demand that people screw with their biological rhythms so that they can have kids.

[ShepherdsDog]

Were your response sufficient I might be compelled to respond with something more, but as it stands it doesn't warrant anything more. If you're not going to make an effort why should I?

[hurley_108]

romanP romanP:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

sorry your evidence doesn't foot the bill.

Wow. Such a scathing rebuttal. How will hurley ever counter it?

No kidding. Shep clearly is incapable of synthesizing his own arguments from available evidence and basic principles. I gave a definition of Fascism, and showed with evidence how it applies to Alberta, a level of response to his demand that was clearly wasted on him as he's only interested in making snide comments and ignoring evidence contrary to his own views. Whatever. My opinion stands.

[hurley_108]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Were your response sufficient I might be compelled to respond with something more, but as it stands it doesn't warrant anything more. If you're not going to make an effort why should I?

You're the one making absolutely no effort. All you've done is baselessly accuse Ontario and Quebec of being accepting of the "heavy hand of government" in their daily lives and pathetically trying to dismiss my argument.

[mtbr]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

mtbr mtbr:

People have to get out of the 9 to 5 mentality , it's a 24 hr workday parents can work opposite shifts therefore institutionalized daycare is not needed saving the taxpayer a lot of money.

Plenty of work out there make some sacrifices for the sake of your kids evening shift or weekends won't kill people.

I did it and I have yet to pay a cent to daycare or a babysitter. That extra money from the Conservatives would have been great since one of us was only working part-time for most of that decade. I want my beer and popcorn money.

That's a real nice sentiment. You chose to make sacrifices so you're going to demand that others make them too so that they can have kids that are going to look after you when you're old? Screw that. Besides, what are single parents to do? People are also meant to sleep at night and be awake during the day. It's unreasonable to demand that people screw with their biological rhythms so that they can have kids.

Its unreasonable to make sacrifices so you can raise your kids and not have someone else do it for you?

I think you're unreasonable there is no reason for two parent families to need daycare in Alberta.....make the sacrifice working nights or evenings or weekends for a few years , not a tough decision if you really care who raises your kids ....unless you belong to a whinny union.

screw up their biological rhythms what a feeble excuse....who changes the shitty diapers at 2 in the morning.. DON'T HAVE KIDS IF THAT"S SUCH A BIG ISSUE.

..fuckin cry baby parents.

[Wally_Sconce]

It sure is funny watching how frickin' self righteous the Liberals are though....they are demanding resignation for drunken comments made in a social setting 16 years ago - the same people who defended sober sleaze and corruption in Parliament a few years ago.

[EyeBrock]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I realise that the point you made was aimed at riden (bless him!) and I agree that people should be held accountable.

So, I didn't in fact, write that I wanted it both ways. My point from the begnning.

$1:

I kind of disagree about 17 years being ancient history. If you look at the change in mainstream social views from 1991 to 2008, thee have been huge differences.
I don't know how old you are but I was well into my second career in 1991 (after 10 years in the military)and I can tell you that I have definitely been 're-educated', mostly not by my choice.
My views have changed, matured and I'm open to many ideas that I wasn't 17 years ago. That includes my views on gays, immigration, freedom of religion and sexual equality. Besides my own views I have been on numerous courses that have given me a new outlook on many communities within our society that I was quite ignorant about.
In all these areas mainstream views could not be more different than they were in 1991.
That was my point that you seem to have glossed over with your usual poetic prose.

You may disagree - that's your prerogative, but that doesn't alter the fact that many people would've interpreted those comments as bigoted nonsense in 1991. This is retrospective nonsense and intellectual relativism at its worse - many might've changed their views in 17 years, but that doesn't mean that the original wasn't somehow flawed or somehow subject to a majority opinion. Seventeen years in this paticalur temporal context is not that significant - it's not like we're judging someone from 1776 or 1889 or even 1914 from a contemporary world view, we're judging from the SAME world view, the SAME educational system, the SAME social mores and the SAME cultural realities. This guy was (and I'll even grant him past tense) a bigot. From a historical perspective, bigotry against homosexuality (oh, and by the way, its certainly fair game for Third Reich historians to hold the National Socialists accountable for their actions against homosexuals - explain how that passes, but Lukiwski gets a pass) a uncultured, unenlightened twit.

I understand that you may have altered your particular world view, but that doesn't mean it wasn't originally questionable. I'm certainly not passing judgment, but just because you had the intellectual courage to readdress your perspective doesn't mean that uttering anti-Gay statements in the early 90s wasn't a form of bigotry.

By the way, "mainstream" doesn't equal legitimate. I'm not subject to Jefferson's tyranny of the majority when it comes to intellectualism - if that was the case, there would be no abolitionists, no suffragists, no freedom riders, no Civil Rights movement and no equal treatment for gays before the law.

I disagree. In 1991 the Supreme Court had not even recognised equality of gays as spouses. The world was a very different place. If you were an adult then you would have no problem in seeing that point, obviously you were somewhat younger than I was 17 years ago.
It's definitely not the same world view and comparing 1991 to 2008, well they are very different eras in social history.
I'm not a proponent of the attitudes of 1991 but making fun of gays was quite acceptable back then and I admit I was a reflection of the societal norms of the day and I would say that by todays standards I had bigoted views.
But that was 17 years ago and I've altered my views and I have collegues and friends who are gay, lesbian and in same-sex marriages. I realise my views of 1991 were wrong and intolerant and personally I'm a little ashamed about my 1991 persona. I'm sure if somebody had taped a drunken night out of mine in the military, it would be peppered with views that I no longer, if I ever really did, hold.
And I never did say mainstream was legit. I just said it was mainstream oh most blessed and sin-free mustang.
You don’t have to explain the consequences of unbridled social oppression to me, this isn’t a TreeHouse program on civil rights, I get it. Some of us plebs can think too.

As a matter of interest your rather intolerant view of rehabilitation runs contrary to even the lefty Toronto Star. They have the usual un-scientific poll running and this one says that 66% agree that the apology was enough. More tyranny of the majority?

[Benoit]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

In 1991 the Supreme Court had not even recognised equality of gays as spouses. The world was a very different place.

If only Lukiwski would have said that in his contrition speech.

[hurley_108]

mtbr mtbr:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

mtbr mtbr:

People have to get out of the 9 to 5 mentality , it's a 24 hr workday parents can work opposite shifts therefore institutionalized daycare is not needed saving the taxpayer a lot of money.

Plenty of work out there make some sacrifices for the sake of your kids evening shift or weekends won't kill people.

I did it and I have yet to pay a cent to daycare or a babysitter. That extra money from the Conservatives would have been great since one of us was only working part-time for most of that decade. I want my beer and popcorn money.

That's a real nice sentiment. You chose to make sacrifices so you're going to demand that others make them too so that they can have kids that are going to look after you when you're old? Screw that. Besides, what are single parents to do? People are also meant to sleep at night and be awake during the day. It's unreasonable to demand that people screw with their biological rhythms so that they can have kids.

Its unreasonable to make sacrifices so you can raise your kids and not have someone else do it for you?

I think you're unreasonable there is no reason for two parent families to need daycare in Alberta.....make the sacrifice working nights or evenings or weekends for a few years , not a tough decision if you really care who raises your kids ....unless you belong to a whinny union.

screw up their biological rhythms what a feeble excuse....who changes the shitty diapers at 2 in the morning.. DON'T HAVE KIDS IF THAT"S SUCH A BIG ISSUE.

..fuckin cry baby parents.

Fine. No harper bucks for child care. While you're at it, get rid of the tax credit for dependent children. Why should someone get a tax break just because they had a kid? Then get rid of public funding for schools. Why should people without kids in school pay for people with kids? Crybaby parents. Let them pay for school on their own. It's just glorified daycare anyways. Scrap parental benefits from EI, too. No more parental leave. Can't take care of a kid on your own, don't have one.

[Wally_Sconce]

there are many police officers that have said similar things at parties 16 years ago, should they all resign?

[Benoit]

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

there are many police officers that have said similar things at parties 16 years ago, should they all resign?

If only Lukiwski would have said that he was drunk at a party in his contrition speech.

[hurley_108]

Benoit Benoit:

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

there are many police officers that have said similar things at parties 16 years ago, should they all resign?

If only Lukiwski would have said that he was drunk at a party in his contrition speech.

Heh heh heh... Good one.

[Benoit]

A man who says nothing in a contrition speech is an c-man (cagey), not a public figure.

[Wally_Sconce]

Benoit Benoit:

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

there are many police officers that have said similar things at parties 16 years ago, should they all resign?

If only Lukiwski would have said that he was drunk at a party in his contrition speech.

If only people spent more time worrying about the actions of politicians instead of the words from a politician, we would not have re-elected the Liberals so many times.