[jeff744]

Brenda Brenda:

jeff744 jeff744:

Brenda Brenda:

No offense, but where does the single mom of 2 kids leave her kids at night when she's working DHL night shift, and where do they go when mom sleeps during the day?

Plenty of good paying day shift jobs too, though they will have to go without her during a chunk of the day to support two kids, possibly grab a second one.

But who is taking care of her kids? They can't be left alone at 3 and 5.
Childcare is expensive, and just working to be able to afford childcare seems kinda counter productive to me...

If she got herself into the mess on her own then I feel no pity whatsoever, if there was an accident that killed the father she gets a little sympathy but I'd still expect to see her working to subsidize welfare. Welfare isn't there to comfortably live on, she made a choice to keep two kids and should still go to work. My parents left me with friends/family when they worked.

[jeff744]

Gunnair Gunnair:

jeff744 jeff744:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yeah, Alberta had a fit last time we sent welfare recipients east.

Never said anything about forcing them to go, I just don't feel pity for people on welfare that complain there are no jobs when they refuse to move to places where there are jobs. There used to be a mass rush west every harvest season because people in Quebec/Ontario knew the people out west needed farm hands, after that they went back.

BC didn't force them to go, but strongly suggested it. Alberta lost its nut.

Alberta is.....Alberta, they do so many things that don't make sense I gave up trying to rationalize them.

[Brenda]

jeff744 jeff744:

Brenda Brenda:

jeff744 jeff744:

Plenty of good paying day shift jobs too, though they will have to go without her during a chunk of the day to support two kids, possibly grab a second one.

But who is taking care of her kids? They can't be left alone at 3 and 5.
Childcare is expensive, and just working to be able to afford childcare seems kinda counter productive to me...

If she got herself into the mess on her own then I feel no pity whatsoever, if there was an accident that killed the father she gets a little sympathy but I'd still expect to see her working to subsidize welfare. Welfare isn't there to comfortably live on, she made a choice to keep two kids and should still go to work. My parents left me with friends/family when they worked.

But she just moved to Saskatchewan to work and her family is rural NS (or BC, whichever ), remember, so she doesn't have family to help her out. Also, the father of her children is an unemployed alcoholic truck driver, who became an alcoholic after he got in an accident (sober) that killed people, while he was on the road for work. She had to leave him for the sake of her children...

(See, it is not always black and white. People have stories, baggage...)

[Gunnair]

jeff744 jeff744:

Brenda Brenda:

jeff744 jeff744:

Plenty of good paying day shift jobs too, though they will have to go without her during a chunk of the day to support two kids, possibly grab a second one.

But who is taking care of her kids? They can't be left alone at 3 and 5.
Childcare is expensive, and just working to be able to afford childcare seems kinda counter productive to me...

If she got herself into the mess on her own then I feel no pity whatsoever, if there was an accident that killed the father she gets a little sympathy but I'd still expect to see her working to subsidize welfare. Welfare isn't there to comfortably live on, she made a choice to keep two kids and should still go to work. My parents left me with friends/family when they worked.

You're hard right for an NDP suporter!

Fact is, a lot of single moms get into a mess because the dad takes off and leaves them high and dry. I have sympathy for them because they opted to have a family though I will admit to having a bit less sympathy if they got themselves knocked up by being stupid. However, to be be blunt, abortion is available and if you choose to go to term then you choose to either put the child up for adoption or tak on the responsibility.

I agree she needs to work and frankly, it't cheaper for the government to pick up the tab for daycare than it is to pay her welfare to stay home with the kids. I know government does subsidize daycare with babies getting up to $750.00 for daycare and toddlers getting over $600.00.

This is the criteria listed for eligability:

You and your spouse (if applicable) must have one of the following reasons for needing child care:
•employed or self-employed;
•attending an educational institution or enrolled in distance education;
•seeking employment or participating in an employment-related program (only one parent can be seeking employment);
•have a medical condition that interferes with your ability to care for your child(ren);
•have a child attending a licensed preschool;
•have been referred by a Ministry of Children and Family Development or Delegated Aboriginal Agency social worker.
You and your spouse must establish a financial need (if applicable). Proof of income will be required.

Not bad really if you are eligable.

[Macguyver]

jeff744 jeff744:

Good idea. Let's give all those folks a one way bus ticket east. I bet Sask and Alta would just love that.

Honestly, we would, a lot of employers are actually fighting over employees. I could have gotten a job making $15/hr for night shift at DHL a couple years ago, last summer I was making $16 working for Sask Highways, tons of employment around here and not that hard to get it.[/quote]

I dunno about that. We might be fighting over employees, but a huge chunk of those on welfare do not make good employees anyhow - well around here anyways. Anyone able and willing to work probably has a job.

I've hired a few guys who seem like they might be capable, but they disappear after the first payday, they come to work stoned (as a pothead I limit my use to evenings and weekends), they need advances, they need rides, they need time off for all sorts of bullshit reasons, they show up late, they disappear when you need them during the day...

We need skilled workers. Unless you run a come-and-go ditch digging company alot of the people on welfare are not suitable for any type of work. If you can't live on $610 a month you've got to get off your ass and do something.

Its lifeskills, people need to learn that their employer has deadlines and other employees counting on them to show up and be productive. I am not a social agency, I do not have any obligation to give people time off and\or pay them and/or hire them if they cannot contribute to the success of our business.

And sorry, if you have kids and for some reason you cannot get to work and be a reliable productive employee, why should my business and my profit and my other reliable employees suffer.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Macguyver Macguyver:

And sorry, if you have kids and for some reason you cannot get to work and be a reliable productive employee, why should my business and my profit and my other reliable employees suffer.

Wow, so if one of your employee's kids has say, the chickenpox or anything else that is infectous or potentially so, yer still gonna want them to come to work?

Or do you just make sure you hire childless people that have no hope of reproducing?

[Brenda]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Macguyver Macguyver:

And sorry, if you have kids and for some reason you cannot get to work and be a reliable productive employee, why should my business and my profit and my other reliable employees suffer.

Wow, so if one of your employee's kids has say, the chickenpox or anything else that is infectous or potentially so, yer still gonna want them to come to work?

Or do you just make sure you hire childless people that have no hope of reproducing?

"If you are not coming to work tomorrow, there is no need for you to come back at all"

[andyt]

Yeah, well, they should get an education, so that they're more valuable to their employer. A big diff how you're treated in a higher skill job vs a lower one. The worst was logging: "If we kill a chokerman today, we can get another one on the plane tomorrow."

[SprCForr]

Gunnair Gunnair:

jeff744 jeff744:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yeah, Alberta had a fit last time we sent welfare recipients east.

Never said anything about forcing them to go, I just don't feel pity for people on welfare that complain there are no jobs when they refuse to move to places where there are jobs. There used to be a mass rush west every harvest season because people in Quebec/Ontario knew the people out west needed farm hands, after that they went back.

BC didn't force them to go, but strongly suggested it. Alberta lost its nut.

They didn't stay. They all went back. I remember reading a few articles in the newspapers a while after that bruhaha. Alberta had done a flush about 13 or 14 years ago.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Yeah, well, they should get an education, so that they're more valuable to their employer. A big diff how you're treated in a higher skill job vs a lower one. The worst was logging: "If we kill a chokerman today, we can get another one on the plane tomorrow."

At this moment, that goes for every job. Degree or not.

[andyt]

professional/skilled jobs usually have more leeway, but you'll find yourself putting in a lot of unpaid time.

[Macguyver]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Macguyver Macguyver:

And sorry, if you have kids and for some reason you cannot get to work and be a reliable productive employee, why should my business and my profit and my other reliable employees suffer.

Wow, so if one of your employee's kids has say, the chickenpox or anything else that is infectous or potentially so, yer still gonna want them to come to work?

Or do you just make sure you hire childless people that have no hope of reproducing?

If you have, as we all do from time to time, an honest reason to not be at work then everyone understands. We can tell who abuses the length of rope we give them by looking at their time sheets. Lots of our people get 80 + hours for two weeks work. Some of them NEVER get 80 hours.

Can we tell our clients over and over that we have to delay delivery because people who we've hired have "issues" and therefore we cannot complete our projects on time on budget? Of course not, or we would not be in business.

Having employment is a two way street. You show up, you put in a honest day's work and you get paid. We are not a charity, we are a business.

[jeff744]

Gunnair Gunnair:

You're hard right for an NDP suporter!

Fact is, a lot of single moms get into a mess because the dad takes off and leaves them high and dry. I have sympathy for them because they opted to have a family though I will admit to having a bit less sympathy if they got themselves knocked up by being stupid. However, to be be blunt, abortion is available and if you choose to go to term then you choose to either put the child up for adoption or tak on the responsibility.

I agree she needs to work and frankly, it't cheaper for the government to pick up the tab for daycare than it is to pay her welfare to stay home with the kids. I know government does subsidize daycare with babies getting up to $750.00 for daycare and toddlers getting over $600.00.

This is the criteria listed for eligability:

You and your spouse (if applicable) must have one of the following reasons for needing child care:
•employed or self-employed;
•attending an educational institution or enrolled in distance education;
•seeking employment or participating in an employment-related program (only one parent can be seeking employment);
•have a medical condition that interferes with your ability to care for your child(ren);
•have a child attending a licensed preschool;
•have been referred by a Ministry of Children and Family Development or Delegated Aboriginal Agency social worker.
You and your spouse must establish a financial need (if applicable). Proof of income will be required.

Not bad really if you are eligable.

I just have no tolerance for people mooching when they refuse to help themselves as well. The vast majority of women around here that end up as single moms are because they were idiots and got themselves pregnant to a dead beat that doesn't even pay child support. If you have kids before marriage and never go to school (or try, which is a very common combo) I don't see why we should be expected to make it so you never work a day in your life.

[Gunnair]

SprCForr SprCForr:

Gunnair Gunnair:

jeff744 jeff744:

Never said anything about forcing them to go, I just don't feel pity for people on welfare that complain there are no jobs when they refuse to move to places where there are jobs. There used to be a mass rush west every harvest season because people in Quebec/Ontario knew the people out west needed farm hands, after that they went back.

BC didn't force them to go, but strongly suggested it. Alberta lost its nut.

They didn't stay. They all went back. I remember reading a few articles in the newspapers a while after that bruhaha. Alberta had done a flush about 13 or 14 years ago.

Yup. Recall the one way tickets they bought for them as well.

[jeff744]

Brenda Brenda:

But she just moved to Saskatchewan to work and her family is rural NS (or BC, whichever ), remember, so she doesn't have family to help her out. Also, the father of her children is an unemployed alcoholic truck driver, who became an alcoholic after he got in an accident (sober) that killed people, while he was on the road for work. She had to leave him for the sake of her children...

(See, it is not always black and white. People have stories, baggage...)

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.