[OnTheIce]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

CAT is not negotiating in good faith. A pay cut in excess of 50% is not reasonable.

I'm no fan of unions, but in this case the union is not the biggest arse at the negotiating table.

Nobody is having their pay cut.

Current employees remain the same.

[dino_bobba_renno]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Yogi Yogi:

That's still $21.00 per hour starting wage!

No it's not. It's 12$ per hour plus benefits. I don't know about you but I can't make mortgage payments on 12$ per hour, or 9$ in benefits. That's a wage you pay young people starting out, not skilled workers building locomotives. This is a disgusting attempt at justifying moving the production to the U.S. or Brazil.

I'd have to agree. That's just barely over minimum wage. I could see if this were only for administrative staff but I'm pretty sure they're talking about the guys on the line which is basically skilled industrial work. That type of work should pay at least $20 an hour with benefits.

[BeaverFever]

Yogi Yogi:

Am I the only one whe actually read and understood the aticle???

That's still $21.00 per hour starting wage!

No, I don't think you understood it. Thats a $12.00 per hour starting wage. The other $9 is the value of other benefits, such as health, dental and life insurance. That's not take-home pay.

[Gunnair]

Well, that's the problem with the article. It doesn't actually list the jobs of those who are affected. Assumptions are being made that this is affecting the highly skilled where it actually might not. That being said, even they 'highly skilled' may not require a ton of skill to do their job.

Anyway, it does indeed smell like the company wants to move.

[OnTheIce]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Yogi Yogi:

That's still $21.00 per hour starting wage!

No it's not. It's 12$ per hour plus benefits. I don't know about you but I can't make mortgage payments on 12$ per hour, or 9$ in benefits. That's a wage you pay young people starting out, not skilled workers building locomotives. This is a disgusting attempt at justifying moving the production to the U.S. or Brazil.

I'd have to agree. That's just barely over minimum wage. I could see if this were only for administrative staff but I'm pretty sure they're talking about the guys on the line which is basically skilled industrial work. That type of work should pay at least $20 an hour with benefits.

If that's the case, I'm sure they have the skills to find a job elsewhere.

Keep in mind, this is for new employees, so you have the option of starting at that rate...or not.

Nobody is forcing people to make $12 an hour and nobody is being forced to cut their pay.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

CAT is not negotiating in good faith. A pay cut in excess of 50% is not reasonable.

I'm no fan of unions, but in this case the union is not the biggest arse at the negotiating table.

Nobody is having their pay cut.

Current employees remain the same.

Uhhh read it again.

$1:

Progress Rail Services, a subsidiary of giant Caterpillar Inc., is threatening to close the 61-year-old locomotive manufacturing plant unless employees accept a pay-cut of more than 50 percent in some cases.

You can't accept a paycut if yer not employed yet.

[dino_bobba_renno]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

RUEZ RUEZ:

No it's not. It's 12$ per hour plus benefits. I don't know about you but I can't make mortgage payments on 12$ per hour, or 9$ in benefits. That's a wage you pay young people starting out, not skilled workers building locomotives. This is a disgusting attempt at justifying moving the production to the U.S. or Brazil.

I'd have to agree. That's just barely over minimum wage. I could see if this were only for administrative staff but I'm pretty sure they're talking about the guys on the line which is basically skilled industrial work. That type of work should pay at least $20 an hour with benefits.

If that's the case, I'm sure they have the skills to find a job elsewhere.

Keep in mind, this is for new employees, so you have the option of starting at that rate...or not.

Nobody is forcing people to make $12 an hour and nobody is being forced to cut their pay.

I'm just not seeing where this only applies to new employees.

$1:

Bob Scott, plant chair, confirmed to Digital Journal that the company's latest offer would slash wages to $16.50 from $35 an hour.

That sounds like it applies to all current employees not just new hires. Can you point out where it says its only for the new guys, maybe I'm just missing it.

[OnTheIce]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

That sounds like it applies to all current employees not just new hires. Can you point out where it says its only for the new guys, maybe I'm just missing it.

Mistake on my part.

If they do intend to cut existing salaries by 50%, that's retarded. I can understand why people would be pissed off.

If they plan only to cut the salary for new employees, I can live with that.

[Yogi]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

RUEZ RUEZ:

No it's not. It's 12$ per hour plus benefits. I don't know about you but I can't make mortgage payments on 12$ per hour, or 9$ in benefits. That's a wage you pay young people starting out, not skilled workers building locomotives. This is a disgusting attempt at justifying moving the production to the U.S. or Brazil.

I'd have to agree. That's just barely over minimum wage. I could see if this were only for administrative staff but I'm pretty sure they're talking about the guys on the line which is basically skilled industrial work. That type of work should pay at least $20 an hour with benefits.

If that's the case, I'm sure they have the skills to find a job elsewhere.

Keep in mind, this is for new employees, so you have the option of starting at that rate...or not.

Nobody is forcing people to make $12 an hour and nobody is being forced to cut their pay.

I'm just not seeing where this only applies to new employees.

$1:

Bob Scott, plant chair, confirmed to Digital Journal that the company's latest offer would slash wages to $16.50 from $35 an hour.

That sounds like it applies to all current employees not just new hires. Can you point out where it says its only for the new guys, maybe I'm just missing it.[/quote]



"To get a flavor of the problem, consider recent reports of changes at Caterpillar, one of the nation’s largest manufacturers. In the past, a typical worker received a package that averaged about $25 an hour in pay; with benefits included the package was valued at $40 an hour. Under the new contract, new employees would receive $12 an hour and an additional $9 per hour in benefits. Explaining this shift, a group president at the firm commented that, “There is a balance that must be struck between being competitive and being middle class” (Uchitelle 2006)."
*******************************************************************************
I guess you either 'didn't read, or didn't understand my post on page 1. It seems pretty clear to me!


Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/3 ... z1iPmEdwwG

[andyt]

It is for new hires only, but it wouldn't just be the starting wage that is rapidly raised, it would be the wage for the typical new worker:

$1:

In the past, a typical worker received a package that averaged about $25 an hour in pay; with benefits included the package was valued at $40 an hour. Under the new contract, new employees would receive $12 an hour and an additional $9 per hour in benefits.

While the benefits package sounds very rich, $12 is not much of a wage. And you can't buy groceries or pay the mortgage with benefits. The employees would be better off taking less benefits and more hourly wage.

[BartSimpson]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

CAT is not negotiating in good faith. A pay cut in excess of 50% is not reasonable.

Then you should send that evil corporation back to the USA where they belong! That'll teach them!

[Yogi]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Yogi Yogi:

That's still $21.00 per hour starting wage!

No it's not. It's 12$ per hour plus benefits. I don't know about you but I can't make mortgage payments on 12$ per hour, or 9$ in benefits. That's a wage you pay young people starting out, not skilled workers building locomotives. This is a disgusting attempt at justifying moving the production to the U.S. or Brazil.

No matter 'how you slice it', it's still $21.00/hr.


Pay me $21.00 per hr and I can then go pay the dentist $1,700.00-(81 hrs pay) for a root canal and then go over to the drug store and fill the perscriptions and pay out of my pocket, or I can just hand over my medical card [i]which is paid by the company![/i]

[Yogi]

andyt andyt:

It is for new hires only, but it wouldn't just be the starting wage that is rapidly raised, it would be the wage for the typical new worker:

$1:

In the past, a typical worker received a package that averaged about $25 an hour in pay; with benefits included the package was valued at $40 an hour. Under the new contract, new employees would receive $12 an hour and an additional $9 per hour in benefits.

While the benefits package sounds very rich, $12 is not much of a wage. And you can't buy groceries or pay the mortgage with benefits. The employees would be better off taking less benefits and more hourly wage.

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[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

It is for new hires only, but it wouldn't just be the starting wage that is rapidly raised, it would be the wage for the typical new worker:

$1:

In the past, a typical worker received a package that averaged about $25 an hour in pay; with benefits included the package was valued at $40 an hour. Under the new contract, new employees would receive $12 an hour and an additional $9 per hour in benefits.

While the benefits package sounds very rich, $12 is not much of a wage. And you can't buy groceries or pay the mortgage with benefits. The employees would be better off taking less benefits and more hourly wage.

First off, let's quit confusing CAT's American wages in 2006 to what's happening in London today.
The WAGE in LONDON will be about $16.50/hr, down from $35, if the production remains there.

But as Gunnair said, I also don't believe they intend to remain in London. Asking for concessions is one thing, demanding a 50% pay cut is an obvious attempt at shutting down the plant.

[BeaverFever]

andyt andyt:

While the benefits package sounds very rich

Having read furhter on this, that "benefits package" figure includes the current pension, which CAT wants to eliminate completely.