[DanSC]

andyt andyt:

It's actually very similar. Leader of the opposition is an important role in our government, which is why he also gets an official residence.

It's not that similar. In the US, Speaker Bohener is the effective Leader of the Opposition. If he died tomorrow, it would be tragic, and he'd probably have a state funeral. If President Obama died tomorrow, it would be a generation-defining moment.

And no, not because one is a Republican and one is a Democrat.

[andyt]

No. But your pres is also head of state. It's a different system. Harper dying would be no more generation defining than Layton (except for the Reformacons). Just a bigger deal because he's head of government.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

No. But your pres is also head of state. It's a different system. Harper dying would be no more generation defining than Layton (except for the Reformacons). Just a bigger deal because he's head of government.

I think it would depend on how he died. If he died of natural causes, you're right, it'd be very similar to Layton, but if he died any other way (plane accident, assassination, etc), it would turn into a generation defining moment in Canada - because he'd be the first PM to do so.

[Unsound]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yogi Yogi:

Unsound Unsound:

I hate to be a party pooper, but this is all getting a little bit silly.

getting????

Be that as it may, I'm betting that if something happened to Harper and there was a massive and spontaneous outpouring of grief, most of the righties wouldn't be acting so sickened.

Who said anything about "sickened"? No one that I've seen. I said it was a bit silly, which it is. That's a long way from saying it's sickening.

Let's be honest here, he was leader of the opposition! For a few months. He had a lot of potential to make a huge difference in the future of this country, but to date his greatest accomplishment was taking the NDP to official opposition status. A great political accomplishment? Absolutely! But a reason to elevate him to sainthood? I don't think so.

I get that people are sad. I was sad too. He was a charismatic man who mannaged to "connect" with people all across Canada from all walks of life. He should be mourned. But this great public outpouring... it just seems a little bit much to me.

[jeff744]

Unsound Unsound:

Who said anything about "sickened"? No one that I've seen. I said it was a bit silly, which it is. That's a long way from saying it's sickening.

Let's be honest here, he was leader of the opposition! For a few months. He had a lot of potential to make a huge difference in the future of this country, but to date his greatest accomplishment was taking the NDP to official opposition status. A great political accomplishment? Absolutely! But a reason to elevate him to sainthood? I don't think so.

I get that people are sad. I was sad too. He was a charismatic man who mannaged to "connect" with people all across Canada from all walks of life. He should be mourned. But this great public outpouring... it just seems a little bit much to me.

He ran out of time, in his lifetime elevating them to official opposition was all he had time to do, if he had been given a single year with Harper running a minority he would have been able to do far more than he was given. His journey was cut short but he still did more than some PMs did in the entire time they ran the country.

[Unsound]

jeff744 jeff744:

Unsound Unsound:

Who said anything about "sickened"? No one that I've seen. I said it was a bit silly, which it is. That's a long way from saying it's sickening.

Let's be honest here, he was leader of the opposition! For a few months. He had a lot of potential to make a huge difference in the future of this country, but to date his greatest accomplishment was taking the NDP to official opposition status. A great political accomplishment? Absolutely! But a reason to elevate him to sainthood? I don't think so.

I get that people are sad. I was sad too. He was a charismatic man who mannaged to "connect" with people all across Canada from all walks of life. He should be mourned. But this great public outpouring... it just seems a little bit much to me.

He ran out of time, in his lifetime elevating them to official opposition was all he had time to do, if he had been given a single year with Harper running a minority he would have been able to do far more than he was given. His journey was cut short but he still did more than some PMs did in the entire time they ran the country.

Really? Like what? Examples please.

[jeff744]

Unsound Unsound:

jeff744 jeff744:

Unsound Unsound:

Who said anything about "sickened"? No one that I've seen. I said it was a bit silly, which it is. That's a long way from saying it's sickening.

Let's be honest here, he was leader of the opposition! For a few months. He had a lot of potential to make a huge difference in the future of this country, but to date his greatest accomplishment was taking the NDP to official opposition status. A great political accomplishment? Absolutely! But a reason to elevate him to sainthood? I don't think so.

I get that people are sad. I was sad too. He was a charismatic man who mannaged to "connect" with people all across Canada from all walks of life. He should be mourned. But this great public outpouring... it just seems a little bit much to me.

He ran out of time, in his lifetime elevating them to official opposition was all he had time to do, if he had been given a single year with Harper running a minority he would have been able to do far more than he was given. His journey was cut short but he still did more than some PMs did in the entire time they ran the country.

Really? Like what? Examples please.

He brought a party from obscurity into official opposition with a majority government (not much the opposition can do when this happens). PMs that did less: John Thompson, Mackenzie Bowell, Arthur Meighen, Joe Clark, John Turner, Kim Campbell, and Paul Martin.

[Unsound]

Which laws did he pass? What wars did he lead us in? How did he change our country in any fundamental way?

Hell, even with-out getting into any arguments about the accomplishments of your list of PMs, they all became PM... Layton didn't. They all won. He was first loser. Did he have the poptential? Absolutly! But as you said, he ran out of time. Mourn the lost opportunity if you want, but please don't make him more than he was. In some ways that attitude actually makes him less than he was.

[jeff744]

Unsound Unsound:

Which laws did he pass? What wars did he lead us in? How did he change our country in any fundamental way?

Hell, even with-out getting into any arguments about the accomplishments of your list of PMs, they all became PM... Layton didn't. They all won. He was first loser. Did he have the poptential? Absolutly! But as you said, he ran out of time. Mourn the lost opportunity if you want, but please don't make him more than he was. In some ways that attitude actually makes him less than he was.

Many of those on the list were not elected, they simply happened to take the position after the PM died or resigned from office and yet they are still considered more qualified than a man that turned a third rate party into the official opposition?

[OnTheIce]

jeff744 jeff744:

Many of those on the list were not elected, they simply happened to take the position after the PM died or resigned from office and yet they are still considered more qualified than a man that turned a third rate party into the official opposition?

How about a man that turned two third rate parties into the government for the last 5 years?

Oh wait, that's Stephen Harper.

No doubt, Jack did a remarkable job with the NDP....but the buck stops there.

[jeff744]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

jeff744 jeff744:

Many of those on the list were not elected, they simply happened to take the position after the PM died or resigned from office and yet they are still considered more qualified than a man that turned a third rate party into the official opposition?

How about a man that turned two third rate parties into the government for the last 5 years?

Oh wait, that's Stephen Harper.

No doubt, Jack did a remarkable job with the NDP....but the buck stops there.

And yet Harper is still alive, Layton is not.

[Benn]

martin14 martin14:

Unsound Unsound:

I hate to be a party pooper, but this is all getting a little bit silly.

Yes, we'll be hauling out Princess Diana soon.

You jest but in the Winnipeg Free Press today someone was comparing Layton to Diana, calling him Canada's Diana.

[Gunnair]

jeff744 jeff744:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

jeff744 jeff744:

Many of those on the list were not elected, they simply happened to take the position after the PM died or resigned from office and yet they are still considered more qualified than a man that turned a third rate party into the official opposition?

How about a man that turned two third rate parties into the government for the last 5 years?

Oh wait, that's Stephen Harper.

No doubt, Jack did a remarkable job with the NDP....but the buck stops there.

And yet Harper is still alive, Layton is not.

What exactly are you suggesting with this point? That Layton has made the ultimate sacrfice for his party but Harper has not?

[jeff744]

Gunnair Gunnair:

What exactly are you suggesting with this point? That Layton has made the ultimate sacrfice for his party but Harper has not?

Layton went on the campaign field under a year after he beat prostate cancer, and by the end he would more than likely have been feeling the effects of his second cancer, find me another politician that went on to campaign and rally Canadians while still recovering from and starting to suffer from cancer. Layton had amazing charisma and I was extremely lucky to get to hear him speak once, he knew how to excite people and to work with a crowd. With Harper I swear I saw people starting to nod off while he lectured them on what he wanted to do.

[Gunnair]

jeff744 jeff744:

Gunnair Gunnair:

What exactly are you suggesting with this point? That Layton has made the ultimate sacrfice for his party but Harper has not?

Layton went on the campaign field under a year after he beat prostate cancer, and by the end he would more than likely have been feeling the effects of his second cancer, find me another politician that went on to campaign and rally Canadians while still recovering from and starting to suffer from cancer. Layton had amazing charisma and I was extremely lucky to get to hear him speak once, he knew how to excite people and to work with a crowd. With Harper I swear I saw people starting to nod off while he lectured them on what he wanted to do.

I guess it's just bad luck that none of the other politicians have had to do double duty to satisfy your challange.

However, Chuck Strahl comes to mind as does Chuck Cadman.

Next.