[Freakinoldguy]

Scape Scape:

In effect they do cover the cost for low income seniors already. The subsidy that is applied to both MSP and Phamacare is income based. Make under 15k and Phamacare picks up the tab anyway and under 22k and MSP doesn't bill you either.

Sounds nice but the reality is something different. I've met numerous seniors, mostly widows who fall in the just over 15K income area who are having a hard time living because of their rent, food, hydro, and telephone payments not to mention the cost of their drugs.


BTW My mother was one of those women and if it hadn't been for a compassionate pharmacist and a small DVA pension she would have been in serious trouble. Thankfully she never had to make those choices but I know of at least two of her friends who did?????????????????

[andyt]

Scape Scape:

Incorrect. MSP premiums are collected instead of general revenue. IE it is the province of BC, not the feds, that bill you.

I don't see the distinction. The province funds 75% of healthcare anyway. I doubt that medical premiums amount to anywhere near that. The province could just fund healthcare out of its tax revenue, which is progressive instead of this regressive tax.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Scape Scape:

In effect they do cover the cost for low income seniors already. The subsidy that is applied to both MSP and Phamacare is income based. Make under 15k and Phamacare picks up the tab anyway and under 22k and MSP doesn't bill you either.

Sounds nice but the reality is something different. I've met numerous seniors, mostly widows who fall in the just over 15K income area who are having a hard time living because of their rent, food, hydro, and telephone payments not to mention the cost of their drugs.


BTW My mother was one of those women and if it hadn't been for a compassionate pharmacist and a small DVA pension she would have been in serious trouble. Thankfully she never had to make those choices but I know of at least two of her friends who did?????????????????

This is just more of Campbell's making the poor suffer so he can cut taxes on the well off. It's his favorite trick - cut progressive taxes and bring in regressive user fees to make up the diff.

[Scape]

Except that in BC MSP is mandatory by law and has been that way well before Campbell was in power.

As for seniors not able to make ends meet under 15K. It's a sad day for them and just the same as when you go to the grocer to buy a loaf of bread the cost varies from grocer to grocer that same principal is in effect for the pharmacies as well and that difference is not covered by pharmacare as pharmacies are not regulated only pharmacare is. The only way to get them regulated would be if the feds were to pass a national drug program and I can't see that happening.

Still, what happened with people being told they should save for retirement? Must the government pay for everything all the time now? That wasn't the intent or mandate of the program but that sure is what people expect now isn't it? I mean why bother saving a nickle anymore if the state is supposed to pay for everything once you turn 65?

[andyt]

Scape Scape:

Except that in BC MSP is mandatory by law and has been that way well before Campbell was in power.

As for seniors not able to make ends meet under 15K. It's a sad day for them and just the same as when you go to the grocer to buy a loaf of bread the cost varies from grocer to grocer that same principal is in effect for the pharmacies as well and that difference is not covered by pharmacare as pharmacies are not regulated only pharmacare is. The only way to get them regulated would be if the feds were to pass a national drug program and I can't see that happening.

Still, what happened with people being told they should save for retirement? Must the government pay for everything all the time now? That wasn't the intent or mandate of the program but that sure is what people expect now isn't it? I mean why bother saving a nickle anymore if the state is supposed to pay for everything once you turn 65?

With all those minimum wage jobs we're creating, while shipping good paying manufacturing jobs overseas, you really also expect those people to save for their retirement?

We're a long ways from the state paying for everything once you turn 65. And European systems seem to function quite well with drugs and dentistry part of their programs.

[Scape]

Sorry, what? You want dental covered now? Where does it end? My problem isn't the coverage itself it's the mandate. If the people of BC want to double the cost of premiums then I would be ok with covering all the incidentals like orthotics, dental, physio and what not. Fact is that's a tax hike that people are not going to stand for.

[andyt]

Covering dental will actually save money since there are lots of health conditions caused by poor dental health. To lump in dental, which is primary health care with orthotics or physio is silly. Same with a national drug plan - it would save money. Do you want to pay a little more tax to fund those things, or a lot more when you need them, is the question.

[Brenda]

Scape Scape:

Sorry, what? You want dental covered now? Where does it end? My problem isn't the coverage itself it's the mandate. If the people of BC want to double the cost of premiums then I would be ok with covering all the incidentals like orthotics, dental, physio and what not. Fact is that's a tax hike that people are not going to stand for.

$100 for a check up and $250 for one cavity on a 13 year old. Yeah, I would like to have it covered.

Especially now they are using the white fillings, instead of the gray. I still have gray fillings that were put in when I was 16 (actually, ALL my gray fillings are still there) while EVERY SINGLE WHITE ONE has fallen out, and I am going to the dentist again on MONDAY to have one done for 3rd time.

[Freakinoldguy]

Scape Scape:

Except that in BC MSP is mandatory by law and has been that way well before Campbell was in power.

As for seniors not able to make ends meet under 15K. It's a sad day for them and just the same as when you go to the grocer to buy a loaf of bread the cost varies from grocer to grocer that same principal is in effect for the pharmacies as well and that difference is not covered by pharmacare as pharmacies are not regulated only pharmacare is. The only way to get them regulated would be if the feds were to pass a national drug program and I can't see that happening.

Still, what happened with people being told they should save for retirement? Must the government pay for everything all the time now? That wasn't the intent or mandate of the program but that sure is what people expect now isn't it? I mean why bother saving a nickle anymore if the state is supposed to pay for everything once you turn 65?

Sorry but my parents and alot who are still alive today came from the Generation that the women stayed home and raised the kids so they didn't get pensions or RRSP's like working women have today.

All they get was minumul CPP and OAP which comes today as we speak to around the grand total of around $1000.00 per month or about $12000.00 per year and when combined with minuscule survivor pensions or miniscule (see second world war) DVA pensions it's just enough to put them over the magic $15000.00 limit and give them that great choice, food or medication.

So if someone could please explain how that generation was supposed to save money I'd be delighted to hear, especially given the fact that they didn't have RRSP's so they could be saving all the monies they didn't make?

BTW where is all the money going from seniors who are paying maximum because of their income? My guess would be to needle exchanges, free hospital beds for junkies and other feel good programs.

So, here's another suggestion. Why don't they take the money the better off seniors pay and put it into a slush fund that pays for the poorer seniors medication and msrp premiums. It just might allow those people to live a life of dignity without the fear of starvation or untreated illness and, as a plus, it'd create a whole new level of bureaucracy, which as well all know must be a good thing.

[Scape]

Brenda, healthy kids already covers $1400 of basic dental services every two years and eyeglasses for kids under 19.

FOG, if the people of BC want to up the coverage for people who make under 20K they can do so. Just tell the government what you want to cut. As it stands it's still based on a percentage of income and not age. That is fair for the taxpayers who have to pay because the system isn't free and it covers millions of people.

As for the supposed money going from seniors who make more. The system is simply not paying for someone who has 70K annual. They buy private insurance and get all the benefits that come with it. You don't pay into they system, it only pays out. Only MSP charges for insurance, drug coverage is separate.

Cost going out for drug coverage are only going up. The program mitigates some of the costs and forces drug manufactures to lower costs because it will usually only cover the lowers cost drugs. However, the aging population means there are more high users of drugs. A great deal of them can not afford the therapies the doctor put them on but also there are a great deal of drugs that are not covered as well. The focus of the program is to cover the effective drugs that are cheaper and not the new and expensive ones. You want top of the line then pay for it. The focus here is doing the most good with the fewest dollars.

[Freakinoldguy]

Scape Scape:

FOG, if the people of BC want to up the coverage for people who make under 20K they can do so. Just tell the government what you want to cut. As it stands it's still based on a percentage of income and not age. That is fair for the taxpayers who have to pay because the system isn't free and it covers millions of people.

Okay how about we cut, David Hahn and Gordon Campbells pensions, that should about cover it.

But seriously, why do we have to cut anything. If provinces like Ontario can afford to give all their seniors free MSRP and Prescriptions why can't we?

I'm not advocating for every senior to get free health care and free prescriptions, just the ones who need it.

If we can give out millions of dollars to house the homeless, give needles to the addicted and put up crack heads in hospital beds for the night, we, as a society should sure as hell be able to give a few thousand destitute seniors free prescriptions and msrp premiums.

[andyt]

Well, from what I've read on this forum, your dad just should have saved more to provide for your mom in her retirement. Anybody that expects to live just on a government pension is a fool and obviously didn't have enough discipline to save money during their working years and were irresponsible with their money. They are just a drain on the hardworking folks who look after themselves and don't count on the govt to do it for them. I mean if it's only a few thousand poor seniors, why couldn't they do what everybody else did - buy a house and build up a nice little nest egg?

[Scape]

I agree that there should be a change on drug coverage so that seniors don't have to be mathematicians to figure out how their next drug gets covered. The lower end should be raised at least 5k but also what is not covered should show up like a sore thumb and not be some mystery.

However, we do that then we have to pay for it because seniors wont. There is an lot of them now and they all are living longer because drugs extend life for the most part. The more we cover the longer we will have to cover them for. I don't think the government is going to be able to balance the budget and keep a drug program like that with the population base that we have. OHIP has a much larger tax base to draw upon then in BC. Alberta pays its system directly from oil royalties and Quebec has all the headquarters of the major drug companies in their province and as a result have the largest formulary because they don't want to lose any jobs so they end up covering dam near everything. We don't have that in BC, we are big but not that big yet.

[andyt]

I think we should all be covered for necessary drugs. It's part of medicine. To me it makes more sense to have an inclusive system, and then have people who can afford it pay a bit more tax for it, than having a means testing situation. That just adds more layers of administrative costs. But doctors need to be pushed to quit pushing drugs so much in the first place, and people need to be taught not to run for some drug for every little thing. Seniors are way over medicated.