[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I highly doubt that anytime soon someone is planning on sailing into the Arctic, planting a flag and saying, "This is ours!" (ignoring petty squabbles like the Hans Island thing with Denmark), but in the same way that we need to patrol our Pacific and Atlantic coast, so too should we be patrolling the Arctic.

I doubt that such a thing would happen right now, but is such a thing being contemplated? Absolutely. We've seen the stories posted here about China saying that they're entitled to 20% of the Arctic and we've also seen the Russians making claims into historically Canadian waters based on the geography of the sea bottom.

Given that the Russians are light years ahead of everyone else in developing extreme weather oil and gas extraction technology it's simply academic that at some point they'll press the claims they're laying these days.

[Scape]

We could buy another sub from the US cheap, never been used:

Pentagon could scrap new ballistic-missile submarine

[bootlegga]

Scape Scape:

We could buy another sub from the US cheap, never been used:

Pentagon could scrap new ballistic-missile submarine

I read a thriller (written by a Canadian) about a decade ago in which Canada bought the very last Akula from a nearly insolvent Russia and named it the HMS Sam Steele and used it to patrol the Arctic secretly.

No doubt wish fulfillment stuff, but interesting nonetheless...

[Nuggie77]

As nice and practical nuke subs would be for extended patrols under the ice, Canada has neither the ability nor facilities to maintain a nuclear fleet of submarines. We're barely able to maintain the conventional powered fleet we have now.

[Bacardi4206]

Wasn't there a article along while back of Australia getting rid of there debt than upgrading there military with more and better Navy, Airforce and Army equipment. Enough to fully protect there borders and additionals. A lot more than Canada has and we have a much larger continent to patrol and a better economy. If they could do that, I don't really see how we can't if we set out minds to it. Though you just know if we did set our minds to that and eventually got around to doing it, some dipshit politician is going to one day sell all that shit for 1/10 of what we paid for it and leaving our military without the essentials it needs to do it's job. Still, would be nice.

[BartSimpson]

Nuggie77 Nuggie77:

As nice and practical nuke subs would be for extended patrols under the ice, Canada has neither the ability nor facilities to maintain a nuclear fleet of submarines. We're barely able to maintain the conventional powered fleet we have now.

No offense to anyone, but if Canada bought subs from the US then you could use the US nuke boat facilities on either coast to maintain your subs. You'd also be able to leverage US Naval bases around the world who'd be able to supply and repair your ships with on-hand kit.

[Scape]

So we would be a vassal state? I don't see the practicality in that. We need to be able to plow our own fields.

[BartSimpson]

Scape Scape:

So we would be a vassal state? I don't see the practicality in that. We need to be able to plow our own fields.

Well, then you're singing my favorite tune!

Refit the yards in Halifax and Esquimalt and start building a proper Canadian Navy. While you're at it, invest in building your own air superiority fighter, too.

Until that time, it makes sense for you to buy US subs because our bases for servicing these boats are close to your bases on both coasts. For Esquimalt the US base at Bremerton is not even a day's sail and on the east coast Halifax is maybe 20 hours from Portsmouth.

[herbie]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

We normally find out about things like the Manhattan and Polar Sea only after they're midway through the Arctic. Had we proper capabilities up there we might actually know when they start, not when they're finishing.

{scratches head}

http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/satellites/radarsat2/

Spot it with OUR satellite and drop a missile on it?
BOOOOORRRRING!
Too economically feasible.
Completely removes the ability to grunt like Tim Allen about having the biggest toy.
Besides when the North Koreans come over the Pole in millions of Chinese ice-breaking landing craft, the Inuvik hockey team can save us.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

We normally find out about things like the Manhattan and Polar Sea only after they're midway through the Arctic. Had we proper capabilities up there we might actually know when they start, not when they're finishing.

{scratches head}

http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/satellites/radarsat2/

We have that NOW, but last I checked, it can't see through the ice...

[Dragon-Dancer]

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

We normally find out about things like the Manhattan and Polar Sea only after they're midway through the Arctic. Had we proper capabilities up there we might actually know when they start, not when they're finishing.

{scratches head}

http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/satellites/radarsat2/

We have that NOW, but last I checked, it can't see through the ice...

Give it a few years and there won't be much ice to see through any more.

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

We normally find out about things like the Manhattan and Polar Sea only after they're midway through the Arctic. Had we proper capabilities up there we might actually know when they start, not when they're finishing.

{scratches head}

http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/satellites/radarsat2/

We have that NOW, but last I checked, it can't see through the ice...

No, but it can see surface ships, if not subs. If we revamped the magnetic detection capabilities of the Aurora and put that capability into another aircraft, we could detect them too. Until they go all German on us, and make their nuclear subs out of carbon fiber.

Now, the fact that we couldn't do anything about it once detected is why we are all concerned.

[BartSimpson]

Dragon-Dancer Dragon-Dancer:

Give it a few years and there won't be much ice to see through any more.

Don't be so sure...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ds-newsxml

[Nuggie77]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Nuggie77 Nuggie77:

As nice and practical nuke subs would be for extended patrols under the ice, Canada has neither the ability nor facilities to maintain a nuclear fleet of submarines. We're barely able to maintain the conventional powered fleet we have now.

No offense to anyone, but if Canada bought subs from the US then you could use the US nuke boat facilities on either coast to maintain your subs. You'd also be able to leverage US Naval bases around the world who'd be able to supply and repair your ships with on-hand kit.

Unfortunately I don't think that would work due to the Treaty between the US/UK that states neither country is allowed to share nuclear technology (military) with anyone else. That was one of the reasons we didn't pursue buying the Trafalgar Class attack boats in the late 80's.

[bootlegga]

Nuggie77 Nuggie77:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Nuggie77 Nuggie77:

As nice and practical nuke subs would be for extended patrols under the ice, Canada has neither the ability nor facilities to maintain a nuclear fleet of submarines. We're barely able to maintain the conventional powered fleet we have now.

No offense to anyone, but if Canada bought subs from the US then you could use the US nuke boat facilities on either coast to maintain your subs. You'd also be able to leverage US Naval bases around the world who'd be able to supply and repair your ships with on-hand kit.

Unfortunately I don't think that would work due to the Treaty between the US/UK that states neither country is allowed to share nuclear technology (military) with anyone else. That was one of the reasons we didn't pursue buying the Trafalgar Class attack boats in the late 80's.

If we bought subs from the US, there's nothing to worry about - that policy is to prevent the UK from giving the technology away to anyone else, not to prevent the US from selling its own tech to whomever it wishes.

Besides, Reagan did offer to rescind that policy for Canada if we chose the Trafalgar subs over the French Rubis class subs.