[martin14]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

sandorski sandorski:

It's only a matter of time.

Until?

They make their chief spokesman their king.

You have been warned.

[ShepherdsDog]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

sandorski sandorski:

It's only a matter of time.

Until?

they start turning their ships into unintentional artificial reefs that are also minor ecological disasters.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Wait, I'm confused here. A lot of Chinese are Buddhists right?
So what exactly does staring at your belly button while meditating have to do with Aircraft Carr......

ohhhhhh wait, never mind

[Shadow_Flanker]

The vessel under construction in the Dailan Shipyard isn't the PRC's first carrier. They have been exploring and studying the idea of having carriers (as part of their blue water navy ambitions) since the 1970s, and have acquired a total of four carriers since the mid 80s to study. HMAS Melbourne, and the ex-Soviet carriers Minsk, Kiev, and Varyag. These vessels, except the Varyag, have over the years been turned into floating amusement parks for tourists.

The Varyag (renamed Shi Lang) being the latest carrier acquisition, is lamost done her refit and is to begin sea trials late this year. The design of the Varyag is to be used as China's first domestic built aircraft carrier; the Shi Lang-class. The class will be of three vessels; the Varyag (now renemd Shi Lang) plus two new carriers.

[bootlegga]

One carrier does not a blue water navy make.

The Chinese have made strides in blue water capability (like sending ships long distance to deal with piracy off of Somalia), but they still lack the years of experience other navies around the world have and it'll be at least another decade (if not longer), before the PLAN is considered a true blue water navy.

[andyt]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Wait, I'm confused here. A lot of Chinese are Buddhists right?
So what exactly does staring at your belly button while meditating have to do with Aircraft Carr......

ohhhhhh wait, never mind

You're more confused than you know. Staring at your belly button is a Christian practice.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Wait, I'm confused here. A lot of Chinese are Buddhists right?
So what exactly does staring at your belly button while meditating have to do with Aircraft Carr......

ohhhhhh wait, never mind

You're more confused than you know. Staring at your belly button is a Christian practice.

Really? Been to a LOT of churches in my day. Never heard that one.

[andyt]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Wait, I'm confused here. A lot of Chinese are Buddhists right?
So what exactly does staring at your belly button while meditating have to do with Aircraft Carr......

ohhhhhh wait, never mind

You're more confused than you know. Staring at your belly button is a Christian practice.

Really? Been to a LOT of churches in my day. Never heard that one.

$1:

Omphaloskepsis is the self-absorbed pursuit as an aid to meditation, originally referring to meditative practices in 14th-century Hesychasm.[1]

Hesychasm (Greek: ἡσυχασμός, hesychasmos, from ἡσυχία, hesychia, "stillness, rest, quiet, silence")[1] is an eremitic tradition of prayer in the Eastern Orthodox Church, and some of the Eastern Catholic Churches, such as the Byzantine Rite, practised (Gk: ἡσυχάζω, hesychazo: "to keep stillness") by the Hesychast (Gr. Ἡσυχαστής, hesychastes).

You just went to the wrong churches.

[Thanos]

bootlegga bootlegga:

One carrier does not a blue water navy make.

The Chinese have made strides in blue water capability (like sending ships long distance to deal with piracy off of Somalia), but they still lack the years of experience other navies around the world have and it'll be at least another decade (if not longer), before the PLAN is considered a true blue water navy.

There'll still be those overly-influential voices though that regard the Chinese acquiring anything more powerful than a slingshot as a virtual act of war.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

There'll still be those overly-influential voices though that regard the Chinese acquiring anything more powerful than a slingshot as a virtual act of war.

The Chinese are not going to use their carrier force for altruistic reasons. It's easy for you to sit back in Canada protected by several trillion dollars worth of American weaponry and dismiss China as a threat.

It's not quite so easy a thing to do for people in Taiwan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Mongolia, Russia, Tajikstan, Azerbaijan, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Japan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Thailand, Malaysia, Brunei, Kiribati, or any other nation that has been actively attacked or openly threatened by an increasingly aggressive China in the past decade. A China that has repeatedly stated their intent to create their version of a 'Greater East Asia CoProsperity Sphere'.

[CommanderSock]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Thanos Thanos:

There'll still be those overly-influential voices though that regard the Chinese acquiring anything more powerful than a slingshot as a virtual act of war.

The Chinese are not going to use their carrier force for altruistic reasons. It's easy for you to sit back in Canada protected by several trillion dollars worth of American weaponry and dismiss China as a threat.

It's not quite so easy a thing to do for people in Taiwan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Mongolia, Russia, Tajikstan, Azerbaijan, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Japan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Thailand, Malaysia, Brunei, Kiribati, or any other nation that has been actively attacked or openly threatened by an increasingly aggressive China in the past decade. A China that has repeatedly stated their intent to create their version of a 'Greater East Asia CoProsperity Sphere'.

I agree with this post. Easy to talk when we're so far away from the area.

But the other question to ask is, can China even fight a war outside its borders? History (time after time) has shown that China always stumbles in warfare outside it's own borders.

Endemic corruption coupled with spineless leadership is usually China's undoing.

[andyt]

The way things are going right now, they don't need to fight any wars. The US is going bankrupt, so they won't be a threat. China may have some sort of proxy wars with India, but they're probably smart enough to stay away from the sort of disasters like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan that the US got embroiled in.

[CommanderSock]

andyt andyt:

The way things are going right now, they don't need to fight any wars. The US is going bankrupt, so they won't be a threat. China may have some sort of proxy wars with India, but they're probably smart enough to stay away from the sort of disasters like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan that the US got embroiled in.

War is bad for business. That's something too many fascist/narrow minded leaders don't see past, well luckily most of them are dead/dying/leaving.

As long as trade routes are open, we're all getting rich, why fight?

I suspect the same pattern to continue in the 21st century regardless of who remains a superpower. The key will be open trade routes, more regional and global integration, and convergence to continue very much uninterrupted.

[BartSimpson]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

can China even fight a war outside its borders?

In 1853 Japan was essentially an Iron Age civilization. Fifty years later their navy defeated the Russians. Forty years after that they'd bloodied the nose of the USA and all but drove the Royal Navy out of the Pacific.

China may not be able to fight a war beyond their borders for now, but the fact of the matter is that they are clearly laying the foundations for a military that can project power worldwide. Given that their military leadership has repeatedly announced their aggressive intentions both towards their neighbors and towards others then any new capability of the Chinese needs to be viewed critically.

In the past decade various Chinese military leaders have said things like:

* China should have enclaves around the world just like how foreign powers used to have Hong Kong, Macao, and etc. in China. Vancouver is on that list of cities coveted by China for such an enclave.

* The Phillipines historically belonged to China and should belong to China again. (Despite the fact that China never had these islands before).

* China should annex Siberia from Russia and by force if needed.

* China should annex Burma/Myanmar in order to secure ports on the Indian Ocean.

* China's strategic interests in Singapore demand Chinese control of Singapore.

* The Spratly Islands and their oil riches should be seized by China.

* China should invade Japan if Japan does not allow the Chinese Navy to transit Japanese waters at will.

Granted, this is their military making these statements. The thing is, anymore there's a lot of concern that the Chinese military is not responding to civilian control and if China destabilizes it is expected that the Chinese military will take control from the civilian Communist government.

At which point things will get hairy.

[saturn_656]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The Chinese are not going to use their carrier force for altruistic reasons. It's easy for you to sit back in Canada protected by several trillion dollars worth of American weaponry and dismiss China as a threat.

Interesting... I didn't know we had several trillion dollars worth of American weaponry.

Learn something new every day.

andyt andyt:

The way things are going right now, they don't need to fight any wars. The US is going bankrupt, so they won't be a threat. China may have some sort of proxy wars with India, but they're probably smart enough to stay away from the sort of disasters like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan that the US got embroiled in.

In the PRC's short history it has fought with South Korea (and therefore the UN), Vietnam, Soviet Union, India, outright conquered Tibet, and is a constant threat to the Republic of China on Taiwan.

If you want to buy that "peaceful rise" nonsense the PRC is selling, feel free. The countries on or near its borders know better.