[andyt]

Interesting point. I wonder what Norway does with a Bernardo or Olson, since the article said nobody does more than 21 years. Unless Norway somehow has not produced such monsters, I would guess they have special provisions for psychopaths.

[GreenTiger]

I would think of this for psychos and dangerous folks, but a number of folks are in prison for non violent stuff ( like the former Mayor of my town on corruption charges). Those folks you could do some of those things with.

[EyeBrock]

Personally I think that all efforts should be made to educate inmates in life skills which many of them lack. If it’s formal education or a skill that they learn it’s all good.

I’m more concerned about violent offenders getting early release. Prison should not be a punishment other than depriving the convicted of their freedom. Making life more tolerable for the incarcerated isn’t a bad thing.

The other prime consideration of prisons should be the protection of the public.

Some people should never get out as they pose a real threat to our society. We can still let these threats get better educated though. Give them an outlet for their evil ways. Education and training.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Personally I think that all efforts should be made to educate inmates in life skills which many of them lack. If it’s formal education or a skill that they learn it’s all good.

I’m more concerned about violent offenders getting early release. Prison should not be a punishment other than depriving the convicted of their freedom. Making life more tolerable for the incarcerated isn’t a bad thing.

The other prime consideration of prisons should be the protection of the public.

Some people should never get out as they pose a real threat to our society. We can still let these threats get better educated though. Give them an outlet for their evil ways. Education and training.

Exactly the tack this program seems to be taking. I don't care if they get saunas or not, but in Norway it's probably considered cruel and unusual punishment to not provide them.

[EyeBrock]

Being locked up is punishment enough andy. Let them have a tolerable life inside.

[BartSimpson]

I'm sure this idea would've worked wonders for some poor, lost soul who just needed to be given a chance.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Being locked up is punishment enough andy. Let them have a tolerable life inside.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I'm sure this idea would've worked wonders for some poor, lost soul who just needed to be given a chance.

You should have used this instead to go for the full Godwin

[PublicAnimalNo9]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Some people should never get out as they pose a real threat to our society. We can still let these threats get better educated though. Give them an outlet for their evil ways. Education and training.

Just ask Charlie Manson. He got hissel' educated and now he's on the good ol' AGW bandwagon

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

So Norwegian murderers are different than Canadian murderers?

Depends on the situation now doesn't it? Since Norway doesn't have a major gang and drug problem, I'm guessing their murderers tend to be more of the single shot variety, rather than some guy shooting a couple of people over a bad drug debt.

I'm also guessing that the ones incarcerated in this resort aren't the Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo or Allan Schoenborn types which leads me to believe these aren't serial killers, mass murderers or rapists who have been deemed likely to reoffend again.

But hey if people think killers and rapists can be rehabilitated just by offering them the good life while incarcerated, they by all means should petition their MP and see if our Government would be willing to build special resort prisons for them?

Otherwise, why don't we put the millions it'd cost to build these resorts into victim services so they can get actually get something out of the system other than lip service.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Otherwise, why don't we put the millions it'd cost to build these resorts into victim services so they can get actually get something out of the system other than lip service.

See this is where your ideological blinkers come in. The report made clear that these prisons cost less than the traditional type. So you could actually pay the victims more with this approach. Or, since you'd be teaching the inmates marketable skills, you could get them to pay into the victims fund once they're released and are working.

[Benn]

Granted I skimmed the last half but I missed where they are taught about personal responsibility to control themselves in the future. One time crime of passion/ Maybe, but how will they assure their passion does not get out of control again? By pruning flowers? No mention of change management or programming like that, which I saw.

The stats where can only be compared to similar jails, which there are none. Of course a jail full of cherry picked low chance to re-offend prisoners is going to have a lower recidivism rate. Near all of these people won't re-offend when let out of a conventional Min Sec jail either. Our minimum security jails (or sections of jails) have people doing trades and work all day and also have a much lower recidivism rate than the general jail population, we just don't give them hot tubs.

Add in cultural issues and differences etc etc and one can't say something so drastic will work here or the public would be willing to spend the money trying it out.

$1:

'I was married to a nice girl for 20 years and we have five kids but in 2008 she came to me and said she had secretly bought a new apartment and was leaving me. I snapped and attacked her,' he says gently shaking his head.

That is not normal behaviour, as a sociologist he should know that. Now how has hitting the tanning bed each day prepared him to not blow up again? I never heard that mentioned in the article.

Gangs was mentioned by another poster and with some of our jails having populations of 1/4 gang members these are people who just would not mix, plus a large number don't care to change or are proud of what they did.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Otherwise, why don't we put the millions it'd cost to build these resorts into victim services so they can get actually get something out of the system other than lip service.

See this is where your ideological blinkers come in. The report made clear that these prisons cost less than the traditional type. So you could actually pay the victims more with this approach. Or, since you'd be teaching the inmates marketable skills, you could get them to pay into the victims fund once they're released and are working.

Ideology and cost aside, we already have prisons in our system that are run somewhat like this Norwegian one. They're called minimum security prisons, which, if I'm correct require an inmate to earn his way into them.

Once there, their living conditions are considerably better than anywhere else in the prison system. They're taught relevant skills, take courses to make themselves more marketable to employers upon release, take courses to lessen their chance of reoffending and get to earn time with their familes.

Kind of sounds familiar? So, before I go any further, are you advocating for every prisoner to be entitled to serving this kind of prison time or should they have to earn it?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Norway's system doesn't work, but, what I am saying is that people should have to earn these priviledges. So before I'd sign off on the Norwegian model I'd like to know how they picked these prisoners and what circumstances led to their incarceration?

Since I seriously doubt we will be going to the Norwegian model anytime soon, I'm inclinded to agree with Eyebrock that life in prison should be productive not vindictive with the public's safety being the paramount factor. So now the question becomes how do you do that and still keep enough integrity in the prison system to make it a deterrent?

[andyt]

I'm not very familiar with our prison system. Someone besides you pointed out we already have similar prisons. If so great. I agree with having to earn the privilege of being in a softer prison like this. Remember that even in Norway, this place is an experiment, not the norm.

I agree fully with your last paragraph, and I do think we fall down there in Canada. I don't think we invest nearly enough in providing chances are rehabilitation and building prisons that are conducive to it. Even some of the "animals" will respond to those sorts of conditions, probably the first time in their life they've experienced them. Just as tough cons soften right up if they're given an animal to look after.

I'm actually for longer prison sentences in a lot of cases. I just want that prison time to be productive, give the prisoner every opportunity to reform themselves. If they really can't or won't, keep em in for a long time. If it looks like they can, give them a chance on the outside, but with strict parole conditions so if they screw up, back in they go.

I don't even care if that approach costs more money. It's worth it if it reduces crime.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I'm sure this idea would've worked wonders for some poor, lost soul who just needed to be given a chance.

You should have used this instead to go for the full Godwin

I was being timely and topical and you, dear friend, went for the 'full Godwin'