[jeff744]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

jeff744 jeff744:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well, quite apart from this instance, I think there's a good case for civilian oversight. Cops stick up for cops--noramlly that is a big plus, but in teh case of the public wanting to get rid of bad cops, it can be a big minus.

Mind you, the whole civilian oversight thing is easier said than done.

Robocop 2, perfect example of a what civilian oversight would result in. Next people will want full civilian oversight for the military too.

You know, that was a movie - a tale, fable told for entertainment purposes - right?

Just because it is a movie doesn't mean there can't be hidden messages. Civilian oversight groups aim for the exact same thing that board of civilians did, make the police nice and as a result make the police completely unable to do their job because of excessive regulations.

[Zipperfish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

jeff744 jeff744:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well, quite apart from this instance, I think there's a good case for civilian oversight. Cops stick up for cops--noramlly that is a big plus, but in teh case of the public wanting to get rid of bad cops, it can be a big minus.

Mind you, the whole civilian oversight thing is easier said than done.

Robocop 2, perfect example of a what civilian oversight would result in. Next people will want full civilian oversight for the military too.

You know, that was a movie - a tale, fable told for entertainment purposes - right?

YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO COMPLY!

[BartSimpson]

Smacle Smacle:

An 11 year old doesn't know how to use a knife to carve chicken, never mind to hurt a trained police officer, I mean, officers.

I've seen eleven year old kids in Africa using an Ak-47 or a rocket launcher with perfect skill. I've alse seen an (approximately) eleven year old boy blow himself to Kingdom come with a suicide vest.

Don't tell me an eleven year old kid can't be a threat. Anyone who's ventured outside of your little Utopian bubble world knows better.

[DrCaleb]

jeff744 jeff744:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

jeff744 jeff744:

[
Robocop 2, perfect example of a what civilian oversight would result in. Next people will want full civilian oversight for the military too.

You know, that was a movie - a tale, fable told for entertainment purposes - right?

Just because it is a movie doesn't mean there can't be hidden messages.

Of course there are. But the caricature of business as government was apparently lost on those prone to overstating an issue.

jeff744 jeff744:

Civilian oversight groups aim for the exact same thing that board of civilians did, make the police nice and as a result make the police completely unable to do their job because of excessive regulations.

Mmmmm, no. They aim to make the investigations transparent, so that the public can be confident that police investigating police don't cover up facts in order to protect their brothers in arms and restore confidence in the police services.

The last line of the article:

$1:

Both Ontario and Alberta have civilian units that investigate police in serious cases.

Ironic that this would be posted on the same page as that article.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loca ... lumbiaHome

YOU WILL COMPLY

[Thanos]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well, quite apart from this instance, I think there's a good case for civilian oversight. Cops stick up for cops--noramlly that is a big plus, but in teh case of the public wanting to get rid of bad cops, it can be a big minus.

Mind you, the whole civilian oversight thing is easier said than done.

You also run the risk with getting a civilian board that's far more interested in enforcing political correctness among the police ranks than they are in letting the police fight crime. That's exactly what happened in Toronto in the 1990's and is a perennial problem in places like Los Angeles. Assuming that the civilians will operate with some objectivity is a grave mistake, considering that in the long run the majority of these board members become far more interested in collecting police officers' scalps then they are about doing anything about crime.

What's worse, putting up a few bad cops or a having a totally paralyzed police force that's unable to do it's job at all thanks to the machinations of local politicians? Not an easy question to answer.

Also, virtual +1's to Bart and Andy for giving awesome answers of their own. Cheers!

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Smacle Smacle:

And there's 6 year old girls in vietnam who can write 2 essays at the same time with each hand in different languages on different subjects. I wouldn't assume all kids could do that tho.

Well that analogy might hold relevance next time someone gets stabbed with a multilinguistic essay.
The second you assume someone doesn't know how to use their weapon, you put yourself at unnecessary risk.

[Zipperfish]

Thanos Thanos:

What's worse, putting up a few bad cops or a having a totally paralyzed police force that's unable to do it's job at all thanks to the machinations of local politicians? Not an easy question to answer.

It is a tough question. But getting easier to answer every day with the number of bad cops that are allowed to continue on with their jobs. That cop in Kelowna should have lost his job within a week. Same with the drunk yahoos that shitkicked that newspaper guy in Vancouver.

Instead you get the investigating cops acting like the defence lawyers they detest: "Oh, he just had a bad day. He's in counselling now."

[Smacle]

jeff744 jeff744:

I guess you completely missed the previous article where he had already stabbed another adult male.

Doesn't mean he over powered the male. Simply caught him off guard.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I've seen eleven year old kids in Africa using an Ak-47 or a rocket launcher with perfect skill. I've alse seen an (approximately) eleven year old boy blow himself to Kingdom come with a suicide vest.

Don't tell me an eleven year old kid can't be a threat. Anyone who's ventured outside of your little Utopian bubble world knows better.

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

The second you assume someone doesn't know how to use their weapon, you put yourself at unnecessary risk.

I don't live in a Utopian bubble just because I disagree with you. No need to make it personal.

You wouldn't nuke Africa just because they use guns tho would you? Overstatement I know. The cops over reacted none the less. If the kid had a gun then I would agree with using a taser but he had a knife.. HUGE difference. A weapon is only as dangerous as the person holding it. If this kid turns out to be a black belt MMA of some type with a specialty in knives and came out the house doing back flips and throwing knives then I'll apologize to the RCMP and retract my statements.

I'm not saying a knife isn't pointy. I'm saying the officers should have used their supposedly superior intellects, training, number, and size to figure out how to not risk the kids life or a media feeding frenzy considering the recent uproar over the use of such weapons. A full grown group of trained officers should be able to use their hand to hand training and protective equipment to disarm a child without risking killing the kid or becoming victims themselves. It's a very reasonable expectation.

[RUEZ]

Smacle Smacle:

A full grown group of trained officers should be able to use their hand to hand training and protective equipment to disarm a child without risking killing the kid or becoming victims themselves. It's a very reasonable expectation.

So you know for a fact it was a "full grown group" of police officers? You know about as much as any of us yet you continually spout off like you know the facts. Here's an idea. How about we wait until the police finish their investigation into this event. Until then what we know for fact is an 11 year old stabbed someone, and then he was tased.

[jeff744]

Smacle Smacle:

jeff744 jeff744:

I guess you completely missed the previous article where he had already stabbed another adult male.

Doesn't mean he over powered the male. Simply caught him off guard.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I've seen eleven year old kids in Africa using an Ak-47 or a rocket launcher with perfect skill. I've alse seen an (approximately) eleven year old boy blow himself to Kingdom come with a suicide vest.

Don't tell me an eleven year old kid can't be a threat. Anyone who's ventured outside of your little Utopian bubble world knows better.

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

The second you assume someone doesn't know how to use their weapon, you put yourself at unnecessary risk.

I don't live in a Utopian bubble just because I disagree with you. No need to make it personal.

You wouldn't nuke Africa just because they use guns tho would you? Overstatement I know. The cops over reacted none the less. If the kid had a gun then I would agree with using a taser but he had a knife.. HUGE difference. A weapon is only as dangerous as the person holding it. If this kid turns out to be a black belt MMA of some type with a specialty in knives and came out the house doing back flips and throwing knives then I'll apologize to the RCMP and retract my statements.

I'm not saying a knife isn't pointy. I'm saying the officers should have used their supposedly superior intellects, training, number, and size to figure out how to not risk the kids life or a media feeding frenzy considering the recent uproar over the use of such weapons. A full grown group of trained officers should be able to use their hand to hand training and protective equipment to disarm a child without risking killing the kid or becoming victims themselves. It's a very reasonable expectation.

So, what you expect is for the officers to risk their lives more than they should so that if one of the officers died because of the kid you can say "at least they didn't use a taser".

[Smacle]

jeff744 jeff744:

So, what you expect is for the officers to risk their lives more than they should so that if one of the officers died because of the kid you can say "at least they didn't use a taser".

No what I expect is that Police don't use a weapon which is known to be lethal in order to subdue a child.

RUEZ RUEZ:

So you know for a fact it was a "full grown group" of police officers?

"The officers were responding to a 911 call reporting the stabbing of a 37-year-old man at around 5:30 p.m. Thursday. "

An "s" at the end of a word usually means that there was more than 1 and they sure don't allow children into the police force.

[Gunnair]

Smacle Smacle:

jeff744 jeff744:

So, what you expect is for the officers to risk their lives more than they should so that if one of the officers died because of the kid you can say "at least they didn't use a taser".

No what I expect is that Police don't use a weapon which is known to be lethal in order to subdue a child.

Which would you prefer: the taser, the asp, or the sparta kick to the face?

Maybe they ought to just shoot the kid in th leg.

[Smacle]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Which would you prefer: the taser, the asp, or the sparta kick to the face?

Maybe they ought to just shoot the kid in th leg.

There are several ways to disarm a man wielding a knife and police are well trained how to do it. A child with a knife should be easy.

[ShepherdsDog]

naw they're cops they ought to be able to blow the nail of his left little toe, while blindfolded and running hurdles.....or is that only in the movies?

[Smacle]

If a bouncer at a club is expected to handle people with knives and guns without the option of a taser or weapon of any kind, I think the RCMP can handle a kid with one.