[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

andyt andyt:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

It's unusual how angry people can be over such small things.

No it's not. We identify with symbols, for ourselves and our tribe. Harming the symbol is seen as equivalent to harming us. That's why the raising of the flag over Iwo Jima is so iconic - it symbolizes dominance over the other tribe. Muslims already have a really bad inferiority complex because they've been stuck in the 14 century while the world has passed them by. (Well for Astan they're probable stuck in the 9th century or something). This inferiority is nurtured by their leaders to turn outward - always easier to blame others than look within for your problems.

Here goes the troll with his bait. The wanker in the UK that purposely went out of his way, at a Rememberance Day service, to piss everybody off, got a fifty quid fine. As he is on welfare it will come out of his welfare cheque. All the events happened in England.

The decapitation of UN workers by an Islamic mob for the alleged burning of a Qu'ran in another continent is not even close to being a comparison. How come it's just in Afghanistan? What about the other 60 or so Islamic countries? Mmmm, maybe somebody is using this as an excuse?

But if you are a troll looking to argue with anybody for no good reason, I suppose you could equate them.

Well looks like my trolling was successful, since I got you to argue with me.

You were one of the people who felt the wanker should get a much more severe consequence than he did. His actions upset you because you have respect for the symbol. It's the same emotion driving you that's driving the people in Astan. Their culture is way more extreme than yours, so they react more extremely. The the underlying emotion is the same.

I don't know why it's only in Astan. Maybe because the incident has not been well publicized. And it seems pretty likely that the Taliban are using it for their own ends. But it's also not in all 60 Islamic countries, because it never is. The Muslims aren't one block that all react the same. Even with the Danish cartoons, it's not as if all Muslims everywhere went on a rampage. And in that incident too, it took some Pakistani guy to whip up the frenzy and add phony cartoons to the series for things to go crazy.

Here's a little hint - don't feed the trolls. If you really think somebody is just trying to provoke you, you don't respond to them, it just gives them what they want. But you and even Lemmy can't resist responding to me, because deep down you know I'm not a troll. I may hold opinions you don't like, and express them in an in your face way, but I'm not doing it just to get a rise out of you. So calling me a troll is really just taking a cheap shot.

[Freakinoldguy]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

Andy and the Public Animal are both right. The Muzzies in A-Stan love to over react, protest and kill people. I'm am coming to the opinion that if they really want to live in the 14 Century that bad let them. I wouldn't bring the rest here though. I don't want this 14 Century garbage on this side of the Atlantic.

The civilized folks over there who want to join us in the 21 Century have either got to stop the protests and work with the UN or do it themselves.

I'm pretty sure the ones who want to live in the 14th Century wouldn't be all that interested in comming to this modern day Sodom and Gommorah. The ones you'd have to watch out for is the religous fanatics who'd want to drag us and our culture back to their 14th Century utopia.

But, that scenario likely wouldn't work out to well for them since, that approach has been tried by indigenous religous and environmental fanatics for years now with less than stellar results.

Although, the reason I said we should look at bringing people who want a better life over here is the same reason the US and Canada took in the South Vietnamese refugees after the Communist take over.

Simply because their lives would be worthless and extremely short after a regime change and since we promised them a better life, we'd better be willing to suck it up and do the right thing, since we aren't gonna be able to do it in their own shithole country.

The only exception to this would be that human slug Karzi, who seems to think that the loss of life his playing both sides to the middle causes for personal profit is just the normal way of doing business.

[BartSimpson]

20 hajis are dead because someone burned a Koran? To my thinking that makes a Koran the single most cost-effective weapon in the whole SW Asia campaign!

Why spend billions killing these mutts when all we have to do is just post video of burning Korans on YouTube and the idiots will kill each other all on their own.

[EyeBrock]

You are right andy. I shouldn't feed the troll.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

I'm pretty sure the ones who want to live in the 14th Century wouldn't be all that interested in comming to this modern day Sodom and Gommorah. The ones you'd have to watch out for is the religous fanatics who'd want to drag us and our culture back to their 14th Century utopia.

But, that scenario likely wouldn't work out to well for them since, that approach has been tried by indigenous religous and environmental fanatics for years now with less than stellar results.

Although, the reason I said we should look at bringing people who want a better life over here is the same reason the US and Canada took in the South Vietnamese refugees after the Communist take over.

Simply because their lives would be worthless and extremely short after a regime change and since we promised them a better life, we'd better be willing to suck it up and do the right thing, since we aren't gonna be able to do it in their own shithole country.

The only exception to this would be that human slug Karzi, who seems to think that the loss of life his playing both sides to the middle causes for personal profit is just the normal way of doing business.

Personally I wouldn't want to take the chance of bringing a bunch of Atanis over here for no other reason than we feel sorry for them. I think we'd be opening the old Pandora's box.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Here's a little hint - don't feed the trolls. If you really think somebody is just trying to provoke you, you don't respond to them, it just gives them what they want. But you and even Lemmy can't resist responding to me, because deep down you know I'm not a troll. I may hold opinions you don't like, and express them in an in your face way, but I'm not doing it just to get a rise out of you. So calling me a troll is really just taking a cheap shot.

You are a troll, andy and calling you such isn't a cheapshot. I haven't anything against you personally. In fact, if I didn't think you were a good person with lots to contibute, I'd just ignore you instead of trying to help you recognize when you're trolling. By calling you a troll I'm hoping that maybe you'll change your behaviour and participate on the forums in a positive manner. But I have to tell you, your history has been WORSE than that of a typical troll because you start off sounding sensible then pull the crazy switcheroo. You've taken trolling to a new level. Your M.O. is superb.

It's got nothing to do with liking or disliking your opinions. EyeBrock and I have completely different points of view on just about every subject. I disagree, fundamentally, with virtually everything BartSimpson says. But we're generally able to get along because we can carry on a debate like adults and, at the end of the day, I feel as though I learn MORE from people like EB and BS BECAUSE they see the world so differently than do I.

Your problem is partly one of selective hearing and partly one of putting words in others' mouths; two classic traits of trolls. If you'd listen to what people say instead of constantly attempting to speak for them, maybe you wouldn't be accused of trolling. In short, if you don't want me to call you a troll, stop trolling. I enjoy reading what you have to say on those occassions when you're able to contribute without trolling. You have the potential to be a master debator but have thus far proven yourself to be little more than a master baiter.

[andyt]

Well, thanks for taking the time to write that rather complex reply, Lemmy. I feel like I got a pat on the back while you punched me in the gut with the other hand.

I dunno about this sounding sensible and then pulling a crazy switcheroo tho. Obviously it doesn't seem that way to me.

I'll try not to put words in people's mouths, but I'm expressing what I read them to say. The gist of it. They can always tell me I got it wrong.

So, where Brock called me a troll, where did I pull a crazy switcheroo or put words in people's mouths? He just didn't like my saying that the motivation behind what the Astani's did and those against the poppy burners were the same.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Well, thanks for taking the time to write that rather complex reply, Lemmy. I feel like I got a pat on the back while you punched me in the gut with the other hand.

Sorry. I meant no malice, but you brought it up.

andyt andyt:

I dunno about this sounding sensible and then pulling a crazy switcheroo tho. Obviously it doesn't seem that way to me.

I'll try not to put words in people's mouths, but I'm expressing what I read them to say. The gist of it. They can always tell me I got it wrong.

Isn't that what I've always done, tried to tell you where you got it wrong? That's where the "not listening" part comes in.

andyt andyt:

So, where Brock called me a troll, where did I pull a crazy switcheroo or put words in people's mouths? He just didn't like my saying that the motivation behind what the Astani's did and those against the poppy burners were the same.

I don't speak for Brock.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Isn't that what I've always done, tried to tell you where you got it wrong? That's where the "not listening" part comes in.

You may find me not listening in the future either, in that case. Because you're saying that you are the arbiter of what's right and wrong. Now, if you mean I misunderstood or misrepresented something you said, absolutely, show me where I'm wrong. But what I see is that often you just say "I'm an economist so I know and you don't". Of course you know economics where I don't. But economics isn't the whole picture, and there is so much disagreement among economists about most topics, you can't just try to shut down discussion by saying you have the facts. It's much more complex that that. If you want some advice in return, I think you would do better on this forum if you argued more from the position of a regular guy. Sure, back up your statements, but just realize that again, they're only part of the picture. It's like Khar (oh oh, here I go again) getting all into the minutiae of arguing about raising the minimum wage, when the ground of the discussion is really about how to help alleviate poverty and how to increase social cohesion by not having too huge an income gap. But then that is the flavor of this board, so I guess I can't blame him, or you.

[Lemmy]

I didn't ask for a turn on the couch, but thanks for the advice.

[CommanderSock]

Haha, you wish Afghanistan was stuck in the 9th century. In the 9th century we had bronze working from West Africa, 300 years earlier Chitchen Itza was built in what is modern day mexico, we had great cathedrals built in Europe, Alexandria had the most comprehensive library in the world, and grand mosques were being built from Tunisia to Arabia.

Afghanistan...in the 9th century? Not there yet.

We can't turn Afghans into our image...let them protest on their own, and let their soon to be Taleban government deal with them.

[Khar]

$1:

It's like Khar (oh oh, here I go again) getting all into the minutiae of arguing about raising the minimum wage, when the ground of the discussion is really about how to help alleviate poverty and how to increase social cohesion by not having too huge an income gap. But then that is the flavor of this board, so I guess I can't blame him, or you.

... yet I have dozens of posts in threads about poverty (mainly poverty alleviation) which were actually on poverty, but you still claim I don’t care about those in need. That thread was clearly about minimum wage, and you made no attempt to move the topic in any other direction either for all your supposed feelings of what the "spirit" of the thread was all about (indeed, I brought up the alternatives after threads of debate without urging, which you said had never been brought up before, another claim I also disproved as it had been brought up many times and that you disagreed with them then). In fact, I have responded to this exact criticism time and again, and I shouldn't be the only one criticized over minutiae, andyt. Yet still you parrot it from thread to thread, use my name and force me to come in and defend myself from “how you've read it.” This is not the first time it has happened, as I will explain later.

As Lemmy says, you’ve got a bad case of selective listening. There is a difference between how you interpret something and taking it to the absolute extreme (or even interpreting it entirely incorrectly) so as to put the other person in the absolute worst light, as is your problem, andyt. When I have to come in to a dozen threads because you've gone off kilter once again by misrepresenting my position, it shows a lot about how you approach topics. Most of those posts you did not respond to, but you continued to post as if those things were true for several threads none-the-less.

When confronted, you complain about people questioning sources (which is entirely acceptable, and which I have allowed easily on myself) when you use questionable ones, or that people are ganging up on you (when they are not), and use inflammatory language or claim others are following the teachers of extreme positions, like Rand (when we’re not, as three people you have argued with all denounced her).

All of this is in the last month and a half. Many of my posts recently have been because you posted my name or disparaged my position excessively in a misleading manner requiring me to defend my positions, andyt, and for no other reason. Please stop trolling.

[EyeBrock]

Maybe it's just you being too thin skinned Khar, and me, and Lemmy, and....