[PostFactum]

Just add few things to Criminal code and everything wil be ok.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I can't link to the reference material from work but the fact remains that there are some folks who think that 'normal, healthy sexuality' should be available to children on the cusp of pubescence.

It is. You never played doctor or spin the bottle as a kid? Normal healthy sexuality is young kids exploring with other young kids. As long as no grownups are involved, it should turn out fine - it did for most of us.

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

In addition, the father of the 12 year old is also the father of his own grandchild, the baby this girl just had. He's in jail.
The fact that the age of consent is 12 doesn't mean a father can just go around and impregnate their daughter.
We Dutchies believe in "live and let live" and not tell kids they can't have sex till they are 35, but to raise them well and have them make their own decisions. Teen pregnancies are not as common as they are here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiolo ... _pregnancy

(The Netherlands : 5 per 1000
Canada: 16 per 1000)

Looks to me that the more prude the country, the more teen pregnancies and abortions. Funny...

You have not age limit of the older person having sex with a 12 yr old. It doesn't help to criminalize two 12 yr olds having sex, tho some good parenting is in order. But with a 16 yr old, that's abuse.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

In addition, the father of the 12 year old is also the father of his own grandchild, the baby this girl just had. He's in jail.
The fact that the age of consent is 12 doesn't mean a father can just go around and impregnate their daughter.
We Dutchies believe in "live and let live" and not tell kids they can't have sex till they are 35, but to raise them well and have them make their own decisions. Teen pregnancies are not as common as they are here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiolo ... _pregnancy

(The Netherlands : 5 per 1000
Canada: 16 per 1000)

Looks to me that the more prude the country, the more teen pregnancies and abortions. Funny...

You have not age limit of the older person having sex with a 12 yr old. It doesn't help to criminalize two 12 yr olds having sex, tho some good parenting is in order. But with a 16 yr old, that's abuse.

Here with 14-th with younger is abuse.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

In addition, the father of the 12 year old is also the father of his own grandchild, the baby this girl just had. He's in jail.
The fact that the age of consent is 12 doesn't mean a father can just go around and impregnate their daughter.
We Dutchies believe in "live and let live" and not tell kids they can't have sex till they are 35, but to raise them well and have them make their own decisions. Teen pregnancies are not as common as they are here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiolo ... _pregnancy

(The Netherlands : 5 per 1000
Canada: 16 per 1000)

Looks to me that the more prude the country, the more teen pregnancies and abortions. Funny...

You have not age limit of the older person having sex with a 12 yr old. It doesn't help to criminalize two 12 yr olds having sex, tho some good parenting is in order. But with a 16 yr old, that's abuse.

This is the actual act:

$1:

Netherlands

The age of consent in the Netherlands is 16, as specified by the Dutch Criminal Code, Articles 245 and 247, which read:
Art 245: "A person who, out of wedlock, with a person who has reached the age of twelve but has not reached sixteen, performs indecent acts comprising or including sexual penetration of the body is liable to a term of imprisonment of not more than eight years or a fine of the fifth category."
Art 247: "A person who, with a person whom he knows to be unconscious or physically unable to resist or to be suffering from such a degree of mental defect or mental disease that he is incapable or not sufficiently capable of exercising or expressing his will in the matter or of offering resistance, performs indecent acts, or who, with a person who has not yet reached the age of sixteen (16) years, out of wedlock, performs indecent acts, or by whom the latter is enticed into performing, or submitting to such acts, out of wedlock, with a third party, is liable to a term of imprisonment of not more than six years or a fine of the fourth category."
Consensual sexual relations between adolescents who are close in age are not punished: sexual acts between persons who have reached the age of 12 years are widely tolerated by the courts and the Dutch Public Prosecution Service if the difference in age between the two partners is not too great. The latter is determined at the discretion of the court, though usually three years is deemed acceptable.
Article 245, Article 247 (in Dutch)

[andyt]

I figured the Dutchies weren't as crazy as the initial report made it seem. In a way that last paragraph makes no sense. What if two 11 yr olds have sex - doubt they'd be prosecuted either.

The first para is very confusing. You can read it that if one partner is under twelve it's not illegal.

[Brenda]

Under twelve it is illegal, period. If both are between 12 and 16 with no greater difference than 3 years, it's tolerated. One under 16, one over 19 is in theory illegal.

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

Under twelve it is illegal, period. If both are between 12 and 16 with no greater difference than 3 years, it's tolerated. One under 16, one over 19 is in theory illegal.

So, let's haul off to jail a couple of 11 yr olds who engage in sex play?

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

Under twelve it is illegal, period. If both are between 12 and 16 with no greater difference than 3 years, it's tolerated. One under 16, one over 19 is in theory illegal.

So, let's haul off to jail a couple of 11 yr olds who engage in sex play?

I don't think there would be anyone prosecuting them. In theory, it's illegal tho.
I wonder if anyone would prosecute a 19 year old who has a relationship with a 15.5 year old, although that too, is in theory illegal.

[PostFactum]

Behaviour of every person begins from family.

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

Under twelve it is illegal, period. If both are between 12 and 16 with no greater difference than 3 years, it's tolerated. One under 16, one over 19 is in theory illegal.

So, let's haul off to jail a couple of 11 yr olds who engage in sex play?

I don't think there would be anyone prosecuting them. In theory, it's illegal tho.
I wonder if anyone would prosecute a 19 year old who has a relationship with a 15.5 year old, although that too, is in theory illegal.

That's the problem with all these laws - too rigid. The 19 vs 15.5 would surely depend on circumstances. If the 19 yr old woman is a predator that just gets off on screwing 15 yr old boys, she should probably go to jail, even tho the 15 yr old boy probably figures he's died and gone to heaven. If a 19 yr old man is in a relationship with a mature 15 yr old girl, maybe it's alright.

(Examples purposely chosen to confound the usual stereotypes).

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

I don't think there would be anyone prosecuting them. In theory, it's illegal tho.
I wonder if anyone would prosecute a 19 year old who has a relationship with a 15.5 year old, although that too, is in theory illegal.

That's the problem with all these laws - too rigid. The 19 vs 15.5 would surely depend on circumstances. If the 19 yr old woman is a predator that just gets off on screwing 15 yr old boys, she should probably go to jail, even tho the 15 yr old boy probably figures he's died and gone to heaven. If a 19 yr old man is in a relationship with a mature 15 yr old girl, maybe it's alright.

(Examples purposely chosen to confound the usual stereotypes).

That's why it is up to the judge to decide. I am sure (s)he will talk to the persons involved, IF there is anyone filing a complaint against them, AND the DA is going (to be stupid enough) to prosecute. Usually, this just does not happen.

[Zipperfish]

Brenda Brenda:

Teen pregnancies are not as common as they are here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiolo ... _pregnancy

(The Netherlands : 5 per 1000
Canada: 16 per 1000)

Looks to me that the more prude the country, the more teen pregnancies and abortions. Funny...

See now that just tells me that Canadian giurls are hotter than Dutch ones. ha ha ha.

Just kidding. Dutch women are hot.

[Brenda]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Teen pregnancies are not as common as they are here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiolo ... _pregnancy

(The Netherlands : 5 per 1000
Canada: 16 per 1000)

Looks to me that the more prude the country, the more teen pregnancies and abortions. Funny...

See now that just tells me that Canadian giurls are hotter than Dutch ones. ha ha ha.

Just kidding. Dutch women are hot.

It tells me we Dutchies are just smarter

(btw, did you see the number for the US?? )

[andyt]

For the US remove blacks and Latinos. For Canada, aboriginals. It still wouldn't be as low as the Netherlands tho - as you say, prudery just breeds this stuff. (no pun intended).