[CommanderSock]

andyt andyt:

I gotta disagree with the first paragraph, Sock. Yes, Podunkville is still mostly white, but the big cities have certainly hit critical mass and then some. When you can get people advocating making Chinese and Punjabi official languages with a straight face, you know that's true.

Canada's top 3 cities have far more diversity than England's top 3 cities. Overall, the % of Canada's population that is non-white is around 20. In the UK its still less than 10%. That's a big difference I believe. And on top of that many of the immigrants here are also white, who aren't counted separately, so we're even more so diverse. Even Nicevilles here are receiving a steady stream of Chinese, Phillipinos and Blacks.

andyt andyt:

Also, we've had way less Muslim immigration, and those seem to be the bad boys of integration. Much as I bitch about immigrants, let the kids of Chinese and Punjabis (or now Philipinos) go to school here and they mostly fit in quite well.

I agree with you on this. No other group has problems fitting in the most than Muslims. Inherently it's Islam's marriage rules that cause much of the friction. Muslims can't integrate because they aren't allowed to marry the rest of us unless we convert. Huge problem. Absolutely, I cannot stress enough how important inter-ethnic/racial and religious marriage is to successful integration. As the old saying goes, "either marry them or kill them".

andyt andyt:

But the number one reason that Canada hasn't a strong anti-immigrant movement is.....we're a bunch of sheep, deathly afraid of not being pc and easily cowed by accusations of racism. We all want to be nice all the time. Too bad we're not more like the Aussies, who aren't afraid to speak up. We'll keep patting ourselves on the back about how nice and tolerant we are while we keep importing way more people than we need, and seem to import all sorts of scumbags along with it. I hope something comes out of this US/Canada border integration, because we'll be pushed to be far more stringent in our immigration and refugee policies. That would be a good thing. Of course the opposition parties will scream bloody murder about it to get immigrant votes, and Harper may balk too because he's also courting those votes.

Australia is unique, and Australia's demographics are rapidly changing too. They are simply socially more backwards (think Canada in the 60s), but don't be fooled by the media, Australia is becoming multi-racial very fast.

The last part of the paragraph seems interesting, because if we get tighter with the US in terms of border integration, our sources of immigrants will shift in my opinion. America's immigrants are primarily from Latin America, Africa, Asia Pacific, and the Caribbean. Mostly Christians too. They will integrate quicker, but that doesn't mean the process will be painless. There will be different pains.

IMO Canadians are more comfortable with Asians than they are with America's immigrant groups. Canada still keeps Latin Americans, Africans, and Caribbeans at an arms length, while America has fully embraced them (as fully as society will allow of course) Can't say until it happens here though.

My 2 c

[andyt]

On the first paragraph, my bad. I was saying the same thing as you.

I've been to QZ a couple of times. I'm well aware that they embraced multiculti type immigration for a couple of decades now. But they have politicians that aren't afraid to say that if Muslims don't want to integrate, they should go home. Our pols would never say that. And they've had racial clashes, which we haven't. While that's not a good thing, it does show a populace not just willing to swallow whatever is shoveled their way.

I don't see how us being more stringent in who we let in, doing more screening of immigrants and not falling for every sob story from phony refugees would necessarily shift us toward US immigrant groups. Latin Americans/Carribeans are the most violent people in the world as regards gun crimes, and they don't bring the educational qualification we're supposedly giving preference to. We could continue with the traditional immigrant countries we have have now, just tighten up who we let in. And, IMO, let in a lot less, but that's another topic.

[martin14]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

David Cameron has a degree in stating the bloody obvious. About time somebody said it though.

Damn straight. Wonder if he has the balls to do something about it though.

[Brenda]

martin14 martin14:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

David Cameron has a degree in stating the bloody obvious. About time somebody said it though.

Damn straight. Wonder if he has the balls to do something about it though.

What CAN you do?
You can't tell people to throw their culture overboard, you can't tell them they cannot throw their religion away.
The only thing you can do now, is close the borders for a while and deal with the problems there are now, without creating new ones (which is what Pim Fortuyn stated before he was shot), but that is not PC...

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

martin14 martin14:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

David Cameron has a degree in stating the bloody obvious. About time somebody said it though.

Damn straight. Wonder if he has the balls to do something about it though.

What CAN you do?
You can't tell people to throw their culture overboard, you can't tell them they cannot throw their religion away.
The only thing you can do now, is close the borders for a while and deal with the problems there are now, without creating new ones (which is what Pim Fortuyn stated before he was shot), but that is not PC...

I like it.

You can also be less tolerant when lack of integration results in crime, (honor killings, say) make all children be educated in the language of the country, go after forced marriages/child brides, ensure that the state is secular and then force citizens to deal with the state in a secular manner (ie stop making the king/queen be the head of church of E, remove old vestiges of an official state religion) etc., stop making silly exemptions like allowing Sikhs to ride motorcycles without helmets or wear their kirpans where knives are restricted, etc etc. Just send a stronger message that "you came to this country, you adapt to us". Keep your culture as much as you want, but not to the degree of not learning how to function in the new one.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

What CAN you do?
You can't tell people to throw their culture overboard, you can't tell them they cannot throw their religion away.
The only thing you can do now, is close the borders for a while and deal with the problems there are now, without creating new ones (which is what Pim Fortuyn stated before he was shot), but that is not PC...

I like it.

You can also be less tolerant when lack of integration results in crime, (honor killings, say) make all children be educated in the language of the country, go after forced marriages/child brides, ensure that the state is secular and then force citizens to deal with the state in a secular manner (ie stop making the king/queen be the head of church of E, remove old vestiges of an official state religion) etc., stop making silly exemptions like allowing Sikhs to ride motorcycles without helmets or wear their kirpans where knives are restricted, etc etc. Just send a stronger message that "you came to this country, you adapt to us". Keep your culture as much as you want, but not to the degree of not learning how to function in the new one.

I totally agree. If I could rep you, I would.

[SprCForr]

Do what should have been done at the start, not giving any cultural or religious group one thin dime of public money. Make financial sources and donations to those groups public. If any group agitates for the reduction of western liberal standards then they should be pilloried by the media for their stance against our society. Lastly, break the law, back you go. Immediately.

[Brenda]

SprCForr SprCForr:

Do what should have been done at the start, not giving any cultural or religious group one thin dime of public money. Make financial sources and donations to those groups public. If any group agitates for the reduction of western liberal standards then they should be pilloried by the media for their stance against our society. Lastly, break the law, back you go. Immediately.

From what I gather (don't pin me on it...) is that if they don't get public money, they will get it from their home country. Yet, you can't give a Christian organisation money, but not a Muslim organisation. Or any other cultural or religious group that is not "white".
"break the law, back you go" sounds good, but you can hardly enforce that. There are family members, a lot are citizens, and what about the Europeans? Would you send a Spaniard back, or a German? Or only a Moroccan or Pakistani?

[martin14]

Brenda Brenda:

SprCForr SprCForr:

Do what should have been done at the start, not giving any cultural or religious group one thin dime of public money. Make financial sources and donations to those groups public. If any group agitates for the reduction of western liberal standards then they should be pilloried by the media for their stance against our society. Lastly, break the law, back you go. Immediately.

From what I gather (don't pin me on it...) is that if they don't get public money, they will get it from their home country. Yet, you can't give a Christian organisation money, but not a Muslim organisation. Or any other cultural or religious group that is not "white".
"break the law, back you go" sounds good, but you can hardly enforce that. There are family members, a lot are citizens, and what about the Europeans? Would you send a Spaniard back, or a German? Or only a Moroccan or Pakistani?

I'd have no problem sending a law-breaking Euro back.

[Brenda]

martin14 martin14:

Brenda Brenda:

SprCForr SprCForr:

Do what should have been done at the start, not giving any cultural or religious group one thin dime of public money. Make financial sources and donations to those groups public. If any group agitates for the reduction of western liberal standards then they should be pilloried by the media for their stance against our society. Lastly, break the law, back you go. Immediately.

From what I gather (don't pin me on it...) is that if they don't get public money, they will get it from their home country. Yet, you can't give a Christian organisation money, but not a Muslim organisation. Or any other cultural or religious group that is not "white".
"break the law, back you go" sounds good, but you can hardly enforce that. There are family members, a lot are citizens, and what about the Europeans? Would you send a Spaniard back, or a German? Or only a Moroccan or Pakistani?

I'd have no problem sending a law-breaking Euro back.

You can't They have the right to freely move between EU countries

[SprCForr]

Brenda Brenda:

From what I gather (don't pin me on it...) is that if they don't get public money, they will get it from their home country. Yet, you can't give a Christian organisation money, but not a Muslim organisation. Or any other cultural or religious group that is not "white".

That's their claim when they come calling for the handout. It's a form of coercion. Using our tax dollars to support the annual Widgetian armpit licking celebration isn't necessary or appropriate. Using our tax money to support Canada Day so that Widgetians, Whozites and Someplacians can come celebrate being Canadians is. Any funding from Widgetia is a form of foreign influence and should be stopped. Local religious groups don't need foreign money for a place of worship either.

$1:

"break the law, back you go" sounds good, but you can hardly enforce that. There are family members, a lot are citizens, and what about the Europeans? Would you send a Spaniard back, or a German? Or only a Moroccan or Pakistani?

It's not a racial thing at all. Deporting those who break the law merely takes political will to follow through on our own established laws. The consequences of their actions that affect their family is their problem, not yours, not mine.

[SprCForr]

Brenda Brenda:

You can't They have the right to freely move between EU countries

This ain't the EU...

[Brenda]

SprCForr SprCForr:

Brenda Brenda:

You can't They have the right to freely move between EU countries

This ain't the EU...

The story is an EU one...

[Brenda]

SprCForr SprCForr:

Brenda Brenda:

"break the law, back you go" sounds good, but you can hardly enforce that. There are family members, a lot are citizens, and what about the Europeans? Would you send a Spaniard back, or a German? Or only a Moroccan or Pakistani?

It's not a racial thing at all. Deporting those who break the law merely takes political will to follow through on our own established laws. The consequences of their actions that affect their family is their problem, not yours, not mine.

Of course it is. The UK is a by origin white Christian country. Every one who is not that is either an immigrant, or gave up their Christian faith.
The ones not integrating are not the white Christians from other European countries, although those make for good criminals too. Yet, you never hear people screaming they should be sent back to their countries.

[EyeBrock]

Well, we started off 30,000 years or so ago. We dabbled in a few things prior to the recent Christianity thing Brenda....it's only been 1500 years of a Christian UK.

Incidently that's 700 years before Islam was even thought of and 1200 years before Sikhism.