[sandorski]

Haiti would be a lot easier to fix than Afghanistan.

[EyeBrock]

Really? I dunno. I think both are broke for a few more centuries.

[CommanderSock]

The difference between Haiti and Afghanistan is that Haiti is right here. And their insecurity is a bigger threat to us than Afghanistan. Haiti can easily become a drug hub.

The Americans turned Puerto Rico into a 1st world colony in a decade. I believe that unlike Afghanistan, we have the opportunity to do the administrative work in Haiti. We won't let them do that on their own, yet. Problem with Afghanistan is that we assumed the Afghans will do what is necessary to get the country to become a democracy, and all we had to do is give them cash. We know that's not how things work.

We need to take a direct role in Haiti's development. We can't have this country be such a massive liability. It's also dragging down the Dominican's development significantly through migratory patterns and bad security.

[EyeBrock]

PR and Haiti are two different scenarios. PR replaced one colonial ruler with another.

Haiti kicked out the colonial ruler then proceed to fuck itself up for the next two centuries.

Big differences and Haiti isn't going to change because Canadians are nice chaps.

[CommanderSock]

The French didn't help the situation by forcing Haiti to pay compensation for every one of it's citizens buying their freedom. The powers in the Americas (Britain, France, Spain and USA) didn't help by imposing a 50 year embargo on an "unruly nation of negroes in arms, a threat to white nations etc".

Haiti was stillborn from day one. It was so debt ridden. It was also run by slaves, who weren't exactly the most educated bunch. You can't have illiterate farm hands running a country.


Haiti had everything going against it.

And Canada wouldn't be able to run it, that would be a unified effort, or USA only.

[EyeBrock]

It's a noble ideal Sock but the only way Haiti could be run is by methods that wouldn't be acceptable in todays climate of nancy-ness.

Our guys were raked through the media and the Opposition accused them of 'war crimes' when we handed prisoners over to the Afghans. We didn't harm these guys but Layton was all over them, public inquiry and all that BS.

We don't have the fortitude to tame Haiti and if we did it the way it needs to be done our guys would be getting arrested. Somalia was like a little Haiti for the CF and we all know what happened there.

We shouldn’t be any part of any mission to civilise Haiti. If the Yanks did it they would be pilloried by the anti-US world media the minute a Haitian looter was arrested.

[2Cdo]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

T4thetillerman T4thetillerman:

The only solution is to adopt Haiti as our 11th province or territory. This could then prompt a huge migration of senior Snow Birds from Florida and would make Haiti eligible for, among other things a Tim Horton's and at least one or two Economic Action Plan signs.

You are just trying to be funny right?

Based on some of his other posts, he's probably dead serious.

[CommanderSock]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's a noble ideal Sock but the only way Haiti could be run is by methods that wouldn't be acceptable in todays climate of nancy-ness.

Our guys were raked through the media and the Opposition accused them of 'war crimes' when we handed prisoners over to the Afghans. We didn't harm these guys but Layton was all over them, public inquiry and all that BS.

We don't have the fortitude to tame Haiti and if we did it the way it needs to be done our guys would be getting arrested. Somalia was like a little Haiti for the CF and we all know what happened there.

We shouldn’t be any part of any mission to civilise Haiti. If the Yanks did it they would be pilloried by the anti-US world media the minute a Haitian looter was arrested.

You're right Brock. Tough decision would have to be made.

I'd hope to give them a referendum. They are generally westernized, just not yet fully civilized. They would be easier to bring about than Muslim Somalis.

[ShepherdsDog]

let Haiti run its natural course without any western intervention or aid. Within a generation there'd be no one left....end of problem.

[CommanderSock]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

let Haiti run its natural course without any western intervention or aid. Within a generation there'd be no one left....end of problem.

The opposite will occur, there will be a population explosion.

Look at Africa and Asia, countries that receive little or no aid are growing the fastest (Nigeria, India, come to mind).

[ShepherdsDog]

Cholera and any number of diseases brought on buy living in your own filth will take care of that population growth.

[CommanderSock]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Cholera and any number of diseases brought on buy living in your own filth will take care of that population growth.

It won't. People will compensate with more breeding. The population will just keep growing and people will start running away (ala Europe/Africa gateway, Middle-East Europe etc).

Only if ignoring a problem makes it go away.

[ShepherdsDog]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Cholera and any number of diseases brought on buy living in your own filth will take care of that population growth.

It won't. People will compensate with more breeding. The population will just keep growing and people will start running away (ala Europe/Africa gateway, Middle-East Europe etc).

Only if ignoring a problem makes it go away.

My original statement with the qualifiers highlighted.

$1:

let Haiti run its natural course without any western intervention or aid

[CommanderSock]

Even without aid it will be the same story. I don't see Nigeria receiving any major aid, its population still reached, what is it? 80m 20 years ago, to 200m in 2020, and sitting at 150m. India went from 800m 20 years ago to 1.1 billion without western aid.

With or without aid the story will be the same.

Somalia receives no aid, look how that turned out. The piracy problem sure seems to have gone away on its own. Al Shabbab sure seems to have disappeared?

[ShepherdsDog]

I worked in Somalia for four years. It received a shit load of food aid, just like Ethiopia did years before. If the food aid stopped and if medical aid stopped, endemic diseases and famine would take care of the rest.