[bootlegga]

ASLplease ASLplease:

The world will be a much less friendlier place, the day that China can dictate terms to the USA, be it financial or military

I think that depends on who is running the country when that happens. If it's the Communist Party (like right now), you're probably right. But if there is a change in their government, then you never know.

It's not really a surprise though is it? The USA put the screws to the UK when it assumed the mantle of 'leader of the free world', and the Brits did it to the French after Napoleon, etc.

Basically what happens when power/hegemony shifts is that the global economy shifts to suit the new global power(s) (like how the postwar Bretton Woods institutions favoured the USA's economics initially).

Militarily, I don't see another nation matching the US for a long time, unless of course someone develops a new technology that wipes out their huge technological lead/advantage (kind of like how the launch of the HMS Dreadnought made every other ship on earth obsolete). It would have to be a real game-changer to allow China to vault past the US.

[BartSimpson]

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

(Chinese) holdings of US debt allow them strong leverage, but leaves them invested in the continual stability and growth of the US.

There's an old saying that if you owe the bank $100,000 the bank owns you. But if you owe the bank $100,000,000 you own the bank.

Such is the case with China.

They found this out when they started the dominoes falling that got this depression started.

See, in 2007 they wanted to punish the USA for wanting them to let their currency float so they dumped 10% of their T-bills on the world market with the intention of spanking the US economy. The immediate result was that they started a run on equities which caused a collapse in the remaining T-bills held by China. And etc. after that. The net of this was the US economy went to hell and, as a result, Chinese factories are closing in droves as Americans stop buying their crap.

The Chinese who are actually in charge of China just don't grasp how a non-command economy functions and they don't understand that their actions are not isolated.

But they're learning the hard way.

[johnmcclane]

Hey Bart, guess what, you Yanks (and it's wholly appropriate for a Canadian (red coat) to refer to a modern American (blue coat) as such) own Canada. There's nothing in Canada that's not available to the Americans, ever, now or in the future. Everyone with common sense acknowledges this fact. Together, we're a world stompin power, sick resources and a vast population in an intellectually driven system. China is no match. Russia is tough with it's crazy land mass but still only equal at best. Nobody in the world doubts any of this, what exists here in Fortress North America, we just need to maintain it.

Give me a message if you ever come to Victoria, BC. It would be my pleasure to hook yo ass up.

[martin14]

johnmcclane johnmcclane:

Hey Bart, guess what, you Yanks (and it's wholly appropriate for a Canadian (red coat) to refer to a modern American (blue coat) as such) own Canada. There's nothing in Canada that's not available to the Americans, ever, now or in the future. Everyone with common sense acknowledges this fact. Together, we're a world stompin power, sick resources and a vast population in an intellectually driven system. China is no match. Russia is tough with it's crazy land mass but still only equal at best. Nobody in the world doubts any of this, what exists here in Fortress North America, we just need to maintain it.

Give me a message if you ever come to Victoria, BC. It would be my pleasure to hook yo ass up.

nooobs............

[Public_Domain]

[CrazyNewfie]

Nope

[sandorski]

It's headed in that direction, especially in its' politics which have already turned into a joke.

[GreenTiger]

bullock.

[BeaverFever]

Well, "third world nation" is quite an overstatement, but the nation is clearly in social and economic decline with no sign of a turnaround in the near future, and many of the country's problems appear to be structural rather than environmental so there will have to be some "remaking" of America and its social and political institutions.

I think Bart's reference to volunteerism is a little misguided; you are talking about people doing work that used to provide income for free. That's not a positive development.

I also don't think the China T-bill scenario really had that much to do with economic meltdown. Clearly, that was caused by the financial sector being allowed to invent all kinds of shady and unstable investment vehicles such as asset-backed derivatives, falsely rate those investment vehicles as safe when they had high levels of risk, exaggerate the returns on those vehicles and then engage in secret Credit-Default Swap arrangements whereby the vehicles were secretly "insured" for amounts far greater than their actual worth and far greater than than any "insurer" could actually pay out. On top of that, you had an economy that for at least 20 years prior, had made debt and credit excessively cheap and a central part of its economic growth strategy. There was simply more money being owed that was being earned in large sectors of the economy, by both individuals and large and small businesses. The Reaganomics philoshopy of poor regulatory oversight, poor economic stewardship on the part of government, idolizing investor short-term interest over economic long-term interest, and a political-economic policy of replacing worker's income with access to cheap credit ruined your economy and damaged everyone elses. Don't take this as a slight, Canada and much of the rest of the world drank the same kool-aid, we just had more robust insitutions that better allowed us to whether the storm and change course.

[andyt]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The Reaganomics philoshopy of poor regulatory oversight, poor economic stewardship on the part of government, idolizing investor short-term interest over economic long-term interest, and a political-economic policy of replacing worker's income with access to cheap credit ruined your economy and damaged everyone elses. Don't take this as a slight, Canada and much of the rest of the world drank the same kool-aid, we just had more robust insitutions that better allowed us to whether the storm and change course.

Right on. And we may have drunk the same kool-aid, but a much more diluted form. And thank God the Liberals kept the banking sector safe and well regulated. Same with our housing market - not much of this sub prime crap here. Of course people in Vancouver spending 70% of their income to buy overpriced houses at very low intersest rates doesn't bode well. But then it doesn't look like our interest rates are going up any time soon, as our little mini boom-let is reversing direction again.

As for third world, when a county lays off almost all police officers, and a judge suggests that people arm themselves as the only way to keep themselves safe - that is starting to look mighty 3rd worldy. Not common yet across the country, thank God - yet.

[The_Doctor]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The Reaganomics philoshopy of poor regulatory oversight, poor economic stewardship on the part of government, idolizing investor short-term interest over economic long-term interest, and a political-economic policy of replacing worker's income with access to cheap credit ruined your economy and damaged everyone elses. Don't take this as a slight, Canada and much of the rest of the world drank the same kool-aid, we just had more robust insitutions that better allowed us to whether the storm and change course.

Agreed!



I used to be a supporter of the propaganda of Reaganomics. Until real life showed me that I was getting poorer under Bush tax cuts.

Also the numbers don't lie:
http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/P ... enDocument