[GreenTiger]

Bodah Bodah:

We should kick out the Iranian diplomat out of Canada until they cease this medieval practice.

If anyone is going to criticize me for that with examples of how we're just as bad, spare me the moral relativism and stfu. We don't stone people to death, period.

Be careful Bodah, somebody might accuse you of being a closet American. The Iranian behavior by any civilized standard is horrendous. Some things are just plain wrong and this is one of them.

[Zipperfish]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Give Zip the benefit of the doubt, and say Khadr was interrogated in a vigourous fashion. This woman was given 99 lashes for infidelity, then some mullahs decided to reopen her case, and have now decided to stone her. Khadr, killed an American medic in a war zone and his family were close friends of Osatan bin Laden, sharing the same home. Perhaps the little murderer knew some secrets, or still does, that could save thousands of lives. There's absolutely no comparison.

Sure there is. In both cases you have an alleged crime, and the unjust punishment for that crime.

So, for Bodah amdn you, it's got nothing to do wiht human rights or the injustice of the punishment at all. It has to do with the fact that the perpetrator is Iran and Iran is the Current Enemy. Like I said: pawn of the mighty American propaganda machine.

"Could have saved thouasands of lives." Give me a break. The torture practiced by the Americans has bugger all to do with extracting information and everything to do with humiliation and cruelty. Take a look at the pictures of Abu Ghraib. Putting panties on someone's head or forcing them to crawl around naked is a strange way of extracting information. Besides, torture is not even an effective way of getting information. People being tortured will say anything to stop the torture.

The Iranian regime is brutal. But no less so than the Americans. The primary difference is that Iran brutalizes its own citizens, whereas Americans prefer to go overseas.

[2Cdo]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The torture practiced by the Americans has bugger all to do with extracting information and everything to do with humiliation and cruelty. Take a look at the pictures of Abu Ghraib. Putting panties on someone's head or forcing them to crawl around naked is a strange way of extracting information.

So you consider being forced to wear panties on your head or crawling naked is on the same level as 99 lashes or stoning.

While I'm sure you will spout about me being blinded by American propaganda, you have been blinded by rabid anti-Americanism to the point where you come across as just another extremist with an agenda.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The torture practiced by the Americans has bugger all to do with extracting information and everything to do with humiliation and cruelty. Take a look at the pictures of Abu Ghraib. Putting panties on someone's head or forcing them to crawl around naked is a strange way of extracting information. Besides, torture is not even an effective way of getting information. People being tortured will say anything to stop the torture.

What happened at Abu Ghraib was mild compared to what will happen at many college fraternities and sororities this fall as freshmen are 'hazed'. And, unlike the colleges, no one died at Abu Ghraib.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The Iranian regime is brutal. But no less so than the Americans. The primary difference is that Iran brutalizes its own citizens, whereas Americans prefer to go overseas.

You're really equating the Iranian regime to the USA? REALLY???

[Bodah]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

So, for Bodah amdn you, it's got nothing to do wiht human rights or the injustice of the punishment at all. It has to do with the fact that the perpetrator is Iran and Iran is the Current Enemy. Like I said: pawn of the mighty American propaganda machine.

It's a global conspiracy then to get them misunderstood Iranians. Do a google news search on the story it's not just the Americans covering the story. Countries from all over the world are as well.

The last thing I think Americans want to do or anyone else for that matter is go to war against Iran, it's fucked up as it is over there. People especially in the US I believe would have no appetite for it. Short of a nuclear fallout over there I doubt Obama (peace be upon him) wont be invading Iran during his shift. Pretty safe to state that. Their plates are full with Iraq and Afghanistan. For the record I was against the invasion into Iraq from the get go the second time around.

My own personally opinion of Iran is that for the most part the people of Iran are good people. That was evident with their last mass protest when "they" felt their voice for changed was silenced and their votes stolen, the majority of the people are in our age group and want change, they were denied that . I was on other forums cheering them along telling them to continue fighting for their country. Its the theocratic leadership that has a few bolts loose.

You remember protesters being killed in the streets dont you? That poor womens last breath posted on line for the World to see. But according to your logic thats American propaganda when they covered it, dude. I wish the news was all happy stories for the most part, but that isn't the world we live in.

Just curious though on your view of burying a women up to her shoulders and throwing stones at her in varying size from small to large until she's knock unconscious and eventually dies ? There has to be a more humane way of executing suspected adulterers don't you think ?.

[Zipperfish]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

So you consider being forced to wear panties on your head or crawling naked is on the same level as 99 lashes or stoning.

Where the fuck did I say that? I consider torture the same as 99 lashies. The panties and humiliation deomnstate that teh torture was not to extract information but to humiliate.

$1:

While I'm sure you will spout about me being blinded by American propaganda, you have been blinded by rabid anti-Americanism to the point where you come across as just another extremist with an agenda.

No, I don't think so. I don't think my post history supports your accusation. I've often been "right" on some issues and "left" on others. "Extremist"? Take a pill there buddy. I might be a lot of things, but extremist ain't one of them.

[Bodah]

Also how is this considered propaganda if all people are doing are reporting facts ? For it to be considered to be propaganda doesn't their have to be some molestation, misrepresentation of the truth or plan old lies and rumours taken place ?

You're not implying that the stoning story is made up by Americans are you ?

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

99 lashies.

Lashies? Are those like a new kind of panties that are lashed on?

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What happened at Abu Ghraib was mild compared to what will happen at many college fraternities and sororities this fall as freshmen are 'hazed'. And, unlike the colleges, no one died at Abu Ghraib.

Really? What school did you go to? Anyways, if what you say is true, then why can't we see the pictures? Answer: The images were deemed too disturbing. They show grpahic rape and torture. Evidence indicates that at least one inmate was tortured to death.

And it wasn't just Abu Ghraib. Torture was--maybe still is--commonplace at teh black sites, at other detention facilities. Sgt Joshua Claus, one of Khadr's interrogators, was actually convicted of torturing a guy to death at Bagram in Afghanistan. The victim was found hanging from a hook. He died of ""blunt force injuries to the lower extremities."

You're really equating the Iranian regime to the USA? REALLY??? [/quote]

Well let's see...how many violently died in Iraq under US occupation? There's several reports, but evidence indicates a hundred or hundreds of thousands, many of them women and children. Ahmedinejad hasn't racked up nearly that kind of body count.

As bad as Iran is, citizens there probably had more appeal to authority than Iraqis did. Who tortured more--Iran or America? I'm not sure. Seems fairly commonplace for both countries.

[BartSimpson]

Zip, there are no 'dynamic interrogations' taking place at any prisons anymore. The fact of the matter is that since the media got all in a dither about this kind of thing and about how terrorists are supposed to be accorded Geneva Convention rights things have changed. The troops in the field anymore just shoot and kill brigands as opposed to arresting them and interrogating them and then being accused of violating someone's rights. It's just easier to shoot them and leave them for the crows.

[Zipperfish]

Bodah Bodah:

It's a global conspiracy then to get them misunderstood Iranians. Do a google news search on the story it's not just the Americans covering the story. Countries from all over the world are as well.

Rightly so. Iran's actions are outrageous. But I just couldn't help but notice that for pawns of the mighty American propganda machine, the outrage stems from the fact that it is the Iranian regime perpetrating this atrocity, not the atrocity itself.

Torture of Muslims by Americans,conversely, is dealt as a joke (as eviodenced by some posts on this thread).

$1:

The last thing I think Americans want to do or anyone else for that matter is go to war against Iran, it's fucked up as it is over there. People especially in the US I believe would have no appetite for it. Short of a nuclear fallout over there I doubt Obama (peace be upon him) wont be invading Iran during his shift. Pretty safe to state that. Their plates are full with Iraq and Afghanistan. For the record I was against the invasion into Iraq from the get go the second time around.

It's difficult to say. Iran wants nucelar capability to counter Israel. Israel is more likely to attack Iran than the US. However, if Israel attacks and the situation escalates, how long before the US is drawn in?

The best case scenario is an internal overthrow of the conservative regime in Iran. Ahmadinejad is considered in Iran the same way Bush was in the US--a divisive right-wing, hard-nosed and unpopular. However, he does win popularity points whenever he gives the finger to the West, given the history of various western imperial powers in their neck of the woods.

$1:

You remember protesters being killed in the streets dont you? That poor womens last breath posted on line for the World to see. But according to your logic thats American propaganda when they covered it, dude. I wish the news was all happy stories for the most part, but that isn't the world we live in.

Just curious though on your view of burying a women up to her shoulders and throwing stones at her in varying size from small to large until she's knock unconscious and eventually dies ? There has to be a more humane way of executing suspected adulterers don't you think ?.

I'm outraged by such behaviour, as I am by all cruelty. I just couldn't help but notice that many of the same folks outraged by Iran were defending the same type of cruelty when practiced by the Americans.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zip, there are no 'dynamic interrogations' taking place at any prisons anymore. The fact of the matter is that since the media got all in a dither about this kind of thing and about how terrorists are supposed to be accorded Geneva Convention rights things have changed. The troops in the field anymore just shoot and kill brigands as opposed to arresting them and interrogating them and then being accused of violating someone's rights. It's just easier to shoot them and leave them for the crows.

Well, I don't believe that the US has stopped practicing torture. I'm sure they've slowed down though, thanks to the good work of people like Seymour Hirsch.

I'm sure Ahmadinejad is making the same complaint--this whole stoning brouhaha is just the liberal media "all in a dither" about an execution.

[2Cdo]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

So you consider being forced to wear panties on your head or crawling naked is on the same level as 99 lashes or stoning.

Where the fuck did I say that? I consider torture the same as 99 lashies. The panties and humiliation deomnstate that teh torture was not to extract information but to humiliate.

The way you wrote your post certainly looked like you were equating the two.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

2cdo 2cdo:

While I'm sure you will spout about me being blinded by American propaganda, you have been blinded by rabid anti-Americanism to the point where you come across as just another extremist with an agenda.

No, I don't think so. I don't think my post history supports your accusation. I've often been "right" on some issues and "left" on others. "Extremist"? Take a pill there buddy. I might be a lot of things, but extremist ain't one of them.

I don't need to take a pill, rather with your recent posts on anything related to America, I think maybe you need to step away from the keyboard for a bit because you seem far from relaxed. You may be a lot of things, and I won't go there, but extremist seems to fit whenever you post on a thread about the US.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well, I don't believe that the US has stopped practicing torture.

We haven't, I'm sure. Obama has so far declined to issue the Executive Order that would put it to an end so why don't you write to him and ask him why he hasn't done this?

In the meantime, brigands will continue to be questioned in the field and then shot so people like yourself don't get upset with them being forced to wear panties on their heads....which, as we all know, is far, far worse than being shot and killed.

[Zipperfish]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

The way you wrote your post certainly looked like you were equating the two.

Tat wasn't my intent. All the Abu Ghraib shenanigans (at least the pictures made public) was that the abuse had more to do with humiliation than extracting information.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I don't need to take a pill, rather with your recent posts on anything related to America, I think maybe you need to step away from the keyboard for a bit because you seem far from relaxed. You may be a lot of things, and I won't go there, but extremist seems to fit whenever you post on a thread about the US.

I think I provide evidence to support my opinion. In this case seeing all these outraged right-wingers going off on Iran when they were silent on similar practices by the US bore pointing out. Which is what I did. Although I'm sorry I did now because I appear to have effectively derailed the thread. My general rule is not drag a debate from thread to thread, but in this case, against my own better judgment, I did. Dumb.