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Posts: 42160
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:00 pm
I heard that you Europeans had a round of this that lasted six years. And the 'Jews' were so poorly treated that those who were left in the game said, 'screw this,' and went home.
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Brenda
CKA Uber
Posts: 50938
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:27 pm
If they had called it "cowboys and Indians" would it have been ok?
EVERY schoolcamp organizes these kind of "droppings" as we call it. There's just no mentioning of Nazi's and Jews, of which I said that was a stupid name.
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Posts: 11240
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:37 pm
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada: andyt andyt: I think you're mixing up Israel and Jews as well here. There is no valid criticism of an ethnic group - they're not all the same, so saying that Jews.... ie criticizing all Jews is idiotic. But saying that Israel.... ie criticizing the actions of a country is perfectly legitimate, and does not amount to antisemitism. But many Israel supporters find it easy to just call criticism antisemitism and shut down any possible further argument. Oh thank heavens, logic and common sense lives on CKA! On this forum, occasionally go overboard, but 95ish times logic and and common sense are the hallmarks of CKA. This is why a number of Americans like me enjoy and learn things here.
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Posts: 8738
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:44 pm
Sounds to me that if anyone needs to be disciplined it is the fools who make the curriculum that is taught in the schools. Not just there but most everywhere in North America.
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andyt
CKA Uber
Posts: 33492
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:46 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog: I heard that you Europeans had a round of this that lasted six years. And the 'Jews' were so poorly treated that those who were left in the game said, 'screw this,' and went home. Wow, that's pretty nasty. It wasn't Europeans that ran the death camps, but Germans. The Dutch were oppressed like everybody else, and some people collaborated, and some resisted. So blaming Nazism on all Europeans is pretty racist, or whatever the term is. Antisemitism has a long history in Europe. And a shorter one in North America, because the (white) history is so much shorter. Nobody can really claim a lily white past here. What matters is what we do now - we're not guilty for what our ancestors did. (Or didn't do.) As for the Jews going home - if you move out for a 1000 years, and somebody else is living there now, you can't really claim it as your home, can you? But too late for that now too - the Jews are back. (Far more fitting for them to have been given a part of Germany.) But for them to claim all of the territory because they held it 1000's of years ago, or because God gave it to them is the same sort of justification that went into Hitler's Lebensraum.
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rickc
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2964
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:09 pm
Dayseed Dayseed: andyt andyt: You could probably make a pretty good argument that Hitler was insane, and under current Canadian law would be found not guilty if he got a fair trial. It's harder to understand how a whole nation can go crazy like that. I doubt Hitler would be found insane. He didn't hear voices, he didn't have delusions and he understood the basic difference between right and wrong. Massive genocide, while an inconceivable idea to the average savage, is a cold, cold, coldly calculated decision. And there are countless historians dissecting that very question: How did Germany go along with it...if you can say that they even did. If the secret police keep hauling away everybody who asks where Mort Goldstein went, people stop asking questions. $1: Antisemitism is everywhere, but Jews don't help matters by crying it at every occasion (had fellow students cry antisemitism when they got a low grade in school) or conflating criticism of Israel with it. I wouldn't have expressed it how you did, but I think there's merit that criticism of an identifiable group, especially rational criticism, equates to racism/homophobia/anti-semitism. It's a cheap way to ignore criticism and silence future criticism. I was stationed in Germany in the early 80's.While there I took a tour of Dachau concentration camp.Creepy ass place! Its one thing to read about in a book,or watch a movie on.Quite another to be there in person.To stand in a place where so many people were killed,really fucks with your head. One of the displays was a notice posted outside the camp.It informed the people of Dachau about an indivivual who was seen trying to peer over the camps walls.This individual was than made a "guest" of the camp for several weeks to satisfy his curiousity.The notice went on to say that in the future anyone else trying to peer into the camp,would be made a "guest" for a considerably longer term.I am quite sure that this notice put an end to people trying to get a glimse inside the camps walls.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:12 am
andyt andyt: I think you're mixing up Israel and Jews as well here. There is no valid criticism of an ethnic group - they're not all the same, so saying that Jews.... ie criticizing all Jews is idiotic. But saying that Israel.... ie criticizing the actions of a country is perfectly legitimate, and does not amount to antisemitism. But many Israel supporters find it easy to just call criticism antisemitism and shut down any possible further argument. I wasn't mixing up Jews and Israel. I had directed it towards your comment that giving a Jewish student a lower grade amounted to cries of anti-semitism. Sorry for any confusion...
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angler57
Forum Junkie
Posts: 714
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:24 am
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206: Just more Jewish hatred and racism to add to the pile. Welcome aboard, you are in well supply as of latley. Idk how Jewish people can put up with this bullshit? All you say is true.Being a Christian today. Being a reborn Christian. And, now the Jewish people. For high school students they a woefully uneducated or better said, undereducated. But, as Christians, the Jewish folks are tough and just cast that ignorant behavior aside, as to stupid to worry about. Unlike thin skinned muslims.
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Posts: 42160
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:56 am
$1: It wasn't Europeans that ran the death camps, but Germans. I think if you read a bit more on the subject that many were administered by Germans and 'run' by enthusiastic local populations, especially in eastern Europe(Ukrainians being one group who really stand out). The Germans tapped into the domestic anti semitism and utilized it. There were plenty of people who helped the Jews but there were quite a few who willingly helped the Germans round up their Jewish neighbours and countrymen. Then there is the entire history of pogroms in the east. Many Jews emigrated to Germany from eastern Europe to escape the centuries of brutality and ethnic cleansing that they had faced there. It's only because the Germans were industrialized and 'efficient' that they were able to butcher more Jews.
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CommanderSock
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2664
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:19 am
Bunch of silly kids, kids will be kids. They'll bully each other, they'll fight, and they’ll make up stupid games. This kind of stuff is taught however, kids wouldn't be doing this [the Nazi business] unless there were general anti-Semitic undertones somewhere close to their lives. However, I shall digress. Just to clarify... The Jews didn't "leave" home. They were banished from it by the Roman Empire (Italians/Europeans) for their rebellious nature. Jews were not allowed to set foot in Jerusalem until it was conquered by the Ottoman Empire. Anti Semitism is a deep rooted tradition across Europe. Each time a European country had a revolution, the Jews were the first to go under the chopping board. The German revolutions ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution ... man_states) are the reason for the large German Jewish diaspora in the USA. The Russian revolutions were even more brutal, Jewish pogroms common. The French revolution of 'enlightening' didn't spare them either. The Germans were not unique in distaste for Jews, unfortunately decided to take it up a notch by industrializing pogroms and using the state apparatus to carry out their vision of a racially clean Europe (again, something that wasn’t exclusively a German vision). Perhaps the lesson in all of this is that Karma is a bitch indeed. The German war and its destructive consequence killed so many Europeans that they needed to import racially 'unclean' people to help reconstruct it and hence today we have England’s soccer team that looks like Brazil’s, and France’s looks like Nigeria’s.
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Posts: 8738
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angler57
Forum Junkie
Posts: 714
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:52 am
Information worth a closer study.
Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin's Role as an Instigator of the Shoah (Holocaust) ========================================================
There is overwhelming documentation of the role of Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, as a leading instigator of Nazi mass murders. For example, during UN Security Council discussions in 1947, the Nation Associates, which owned what is now The Nation magazine, presented photostats of letters written by Hajj Amin al-Husseini, proving his complicity in the murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews. The text of one such letter is posted below. As you read this letter, please note the understated language. The Mufti was arguing against allowing Hungarian Jews to "escape" (his term). Instead they should be sent "to other countries where they would find themselves under active control, for example, in Poland." The phrase of note is "active control." Poland was the site of Chelmno, Treblinka, Sobibór, Majdanek, Belzec and of course Auschwitz-Birkenau, to name just the six biggest death camps. All of my Polish relatives succumbed to "active control" at these Nazi death camps. [Letter from Mufti starts here] Mufti Asks Hungary to Send Jews to Poland
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andyt
CKA Uber
Posts: 33492
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:57 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog: $1: It wasn't Europeans that ran the death camps, but Germans. I think if you read a bit more on the subject that many were administered by Germans and 'run' by enthusiastic local populations, especially in eastern Europe(Ukrainians being one group who really stand out). The Germans tapped into the domestic anti semitism and utilized it. There were plenty of people who helped the Jews but there were quite a few who willingly helped the Germans round up their Jewish neighbours and countrymen. Then there is the entire history of pogroms in the east. Many Jews emigrated to Germany from eastern Europe to escape the centuries of brutality and ethnic cleansing that they had faced there. It's only because the Germans were industrialized and 'efficient' that they were able to butcher more Jews. You make a good point. But I still don't think you can talk about "you Europeans" because us North Americans of European descent (I assume you are one, tho what do I know) seem to have brought antisemitism along for the boat ride.
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angler57
Forum Junkie
Posts: 714
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:15 pm
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angler57
Forum Junkie
Posts: 714
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:28 pm
Andyt; You make a good point. But I still don't think you can talk about "you Europeans" because us North Americans of European descent (I assume you are one, tho what do I know) seem to have brought antisemitism along for the boat ride.
Angler57; You are correct on this point. But, BUTTTT, not fair to blame this sins of the fathers on the sons. You covered all this earlier. Be they Canadian, USA or German. That is history. What we each do, here, today, is what is important.
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