[kenmore]

The fact of the matter is the government and the military are doing a piss poor job when it comes to psychiatric support for PTSD and other mental health issues the military have on return and during their tour of duty. Too many are told to suck it up and called derogatory names if they can't cut it. There is a back log of soldiers waiting for mental health services to deal with severe issues.. So I wouldn't expect any quick recoveries..

[PublicAnimalNo9]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

We should also consider the reservists who've done tours. The support network is not the same for the Militia guys.

Ahhhh maybe THAT'S where I've been hearing the problems and getting them confused with the Regulars.
If I remember correctly now, a Minister of Defence during the last Liberal reign got shitcanned for pushing to get Reservists that had done tours the same benefits as the Regulars.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

We should also consider the reservists who've done tours. The support network is not the same for the Militia guys.

Well surely at least those guys can access the civilian system, no?

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

We should also consider the reservists who've done tours. The support network is not the same for the Militia guys.

The support network isn't in place for the regulars either. I have a close friend who's in Homewood, right now, for a 4-month PTSD program. This is 15 years since he was in Bosnia and he's, JUST NOW, getting some help with his issue.

[Brenda]

Psychological and psychiatric help should be accessible for everyone, and covered by health care. And available when needed. I can understand there's a waitinglist, but I cannot understand there is a 15 year long waitinglist. That is not acceptable.

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

We should also consider the reservists who've done tours. The support network is not the same for the Militia guys.

Well surely at least those guys can access the civilian system, no?

Yes, but the links from the Regiment, squadron etc are not the same. A Regiment is a family and the Militia ties are not as strong.

Some guys just need to know that their mates understand. Others might need more in depth help. It's a difficult concept to convey with it's true meaning for those who haven't served or been in combat.

The answer to all the problems isn't talking to some civvy shrink who can't really empathise with a 22 year-old soldier from some NFLD outport about what he went through in Afghanistan.
I've seem some guys who have struggled with PTSD and there is no magic bullet here.

I've looked at some of the PTSD issues in my job, which are nowhere near as severe, but the same issues crop up.

It's difficult to take a shrink in a credible manner when they have no clue and come from a privileged background and have never even been to boot camp, never mind combat.

It's a tougher subject than can be adequately described in a few posts. There's a few guys on here who know exactly what I mean.

[Brenda]

Your post makes me wonder, EB, why not more psychiatrists and psychologists are trained by the army. Apparently, there is a huge need for them...

[EyeBrock]

Some are Brenda. But remember, doctors are officers. It's a whole different world when your doc outranks you by 10 or so ranks.

Like I say, no easy fix on this one and it's much more complicated that is appears to the casual observer.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

Your post makes me wonder, EB, why not more psychiatrists and psychologists are trained by the army. Apparently, there is a huge need for them...

More professionals, more facilities, and, as EB said, hopefully a lot more understanding of combat experiences among the medical staff that will work with these folks.

[Brenda]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Some are Brenda. But remember, doctors are officers. It's a whole different world when your doc outranks you by 10 or so ranks.

Like I say, no easy fix on this one and it's much more complicated that is appears to the casual observer.

Just an idea, but aren't there retired officers (so rankless...) that could be working as psychiatrists/psychologists in specialized civvy/army "institutions"?

That are more easy to talk to than your "superior" in the army, but has the experience because s/he served, but is "just" a shrink, and also treating civvies?

(hmm, does that make the sense I want it to make? )

[Guy_Fawkes]

kenmore kenmore:

The fact of the matter is the government and the military are doing a piss poor job when it comes to psychiatric support for PTSD and other mental health issues the military have on return and during their tour of duty. Too many are told to suck it up and called derogatory names if they can't cut it. There is a back log of soldiers waiting for mental health services to deal with severe issues.. So I wouldn't expect any quick recoveries..

Not in my neck of the woods, no one is really looked down upon or degraded in any way. I cant say anything in regards to other bases but mine deals with those who need help very well.

[SprCForr]

There's some ill informed assumptions being made. First is the idea that the chain of command turns a blind eye to PTSD. Nothing further from the truth than that. That opinion held water decades ago, but not now. The second is the chain of command pushes the "suck it up and stop being a pussy" attitude. That is like the first, ancient history. No one is demanding that soldiers be deferred to, to be beyond criticism or held as some kind of untouchable hero. To assume such is as idiotic as those that demand it. The "macho posturing" of young soldiers is no different that any other group of young, fit and confident people in any other field. To assume that many go strictly for some kind of enhanced career opportunity is utter hogwash. Soldiers go because their unit is tasked. The staff officers are tapped to fill individual positions. They don't need to volunteer for extra tours, they come around fast enough. The field force isn't that big and for those who stick around they'll soon have their fill of deploying. Leave the US Army Vietnam coffee shop collective "wisdom" to the movie watching Pattons and Guderians.

Troops know what they're heading into. Every single one. Also, the support and programs are there. (I'm confining my comments to the Regular Force) The problem is that it's erratic. PTSD affects people differently and the system has difficulty in dealing with that. Result X equals Treatment Y isn't applicable and like any beaurocracy, there's trouble when it falls outside of those parameters. Soldiers have the expectation that if they hurt when carrying out the task they are called upon to do, then the system shall fix them. So that expectation, combined with an unprepared beaurocracy, and an individual aspect that can't be denied cause some trouble. What's interesting in a lot of these news stories is the lack of reporting on the successes, and to be sure there are plenty. Some reports allude to peer counselling. That was done to prevent people who don't have a clue to the situation from trying to help someone who was there. One group you don't hear much from are the padres. Those guys do some good work and it's hardly ever recognized.

Crap, gotta go. I'll sum this up later.

[Lemmy]

Good post, Spur, but I think things have changed now versus 1994. Maybe it's because the role in Afghanistan is more intense than it was in Yugoslavia. But according to my friend, lots of guys (himself included) just quit on return to Canada and were let go by the Forces without questioning the reasons why good soldiers were walking away. Then when they started to experience PTSD, they went back to the Forces for help and were turned away. It's taken 15 years for the Forces to do right by my friend and, heresay though it is, he tells me he's not unique in this experience. There are 14 other PTSD sufferers on his ward at Homewood right now. Nearly half of them are Bosnia veterans that have been waiting 'til now for the support they've been needing.

[andyt]

SprCForr SprCForr:

No one is demanding that soldiers be deffered to, to be beyond criticism or held as sme kind of untouchable hero. To assume such is as idiotic as those that demand it.

Do you see the problem wit the logic here? If those that demand it are idiotic, then it's not idiotic to assume some demand it. All kins of valid criticism is deflected with "you've got to support the troops."

But good point about PTSD. There is no straightforward treatment for it as there is with say a bullet wound. Individuals respond differently. And civilians experience PTSD as well, and have the same struggles. I think for both groups there are insufficient resources out there, and that should be addressed for both groups. Not one over the other.

A brief google brought up frequent references to EMDR. That is short term, and if indeed it has been shown to be effective for some people, it certainly seems worth it to give it a try. Group therapy is cost effective, and doesn't need to be facilitated by somebody "who's been there" nor by a highly paid psychiatrist. Just by somebody who knows how to keep things on track, and when to step out of the way. The soldiers can support each other around understanding their experience, that's the point of a group. Both of these methods are pretty low cost, and should be made available to anybody with PTSD, military or civilian.

[SprCForr]

Lemmy, you're right. Things have changed. I was going to finish up by making some of the same points you just made. The rapid turnover would result in those needing help leaving before they got it and probably before they realized they needed help. The military is piss poor on follow up after people leave. They never were actually. The assumption is DVA or the health care system would look after them. They're under pressure and the easy solution when presented with someone who wants out? OK, you're out. Let the civil side deal with anything that might come up. Unless you're a round peg in a round hole the system isn't set up to help effectively. That means most didn't get the right sort of help they needed if any. Typical beaurocracy? Yep, the military can be as monolithic as they get.

With the wind down to Afstan coming, the green machine needs to keep working on the issues affecting the troops and not let the knowledge base ever deteriorate to the extent it did. I fear there will be a "down tools" mentality or a cut costs rampage and all the good work done will be lost.

Lemmy, it kills me that your friend couldn't get the help he needed when he needed it. Hopefully the system can take his circumstances and use it to help others in need. I do take some small comfort in that all my people and friends who were afflicted got and still get the help they needed. Then again sappers are a small group and we're pretty close to each other and that probably helps some.