[CommanderSock]

Somalis are spread out throughout the Middle East in large numbers; some of them are extremely wealthy.

I posted an article on this last year from the Economist regarding their funding and complex operations. The fact that their rickety boats know exactly where the coalition fleets are located is not a co-incidence.

Until we work with the Somalis, not against them, this problem will not go away. It's quite simple.

The first step is to stop thinking of them as mindless savages and realize they are humans like us, and they have motives and motivations. Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines and the USA all worked together to solve their piracy problems with both hard force and soft projects such as infrastructure, jobs and subsidies for the impoverished island dwellers who were taking up arms in the high seas.

I don't see this happening with Somalia until we solve the root problem of anarchy in most of mainland Somalia.

We could start by helping the African Union control the border regions. It is the only organization that has any authority in Africa and it’s only natural to work with them to help solve the problem from the ground.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I don't understand the mechanics of thwarting a pirate attack. It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. One good sniper, and boom there goes the guy with the RPG. Boom there goes the pilot. Boom, boom, boom there goes the rest of em, you'd think.

Part of the problem is there are a lot of legitimate fishermen there as well. THe pirates use the same type of boats. When one of these boats gets too close to either a navy ship or regular ship that is being "watched" over, the navy gives them plenty of opportunity to move away. I have a feeling that arming ships with "private" security and big weapons will result in itchy fingered non-professionals shooting regular ol' fishing boats out of the water.

[BartSimpson]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Somalis are spread out throughout the Middle East in large numbers; some of them are extremely wealthy.

I posted an article on this last year from the Economist regarding their funding and complex operations. The fact that their rickety boats know exactly where the coalition fleets are located is not a co-incidence.

There's also the miracle of the Internet that the pirates have access to:

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/defaul ... level1=140

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Until we work with the Somalis, not against them, this problem will not go away. It's quite simple.

"We" have been doing exactly that for the past 20 years and we're getting nowhere with it.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

The first step is to stop thinking of them as mindless savages and realize they are humans like us, and they have motives and motivations.

No, the first step is to understand that the Somalis are tribalistic and unless you're a part of their tribe you're fair game. The next thing to understand is that the pirates are generally supportive of al-Shabab which practices an extreme version of Wahabbi Islam and that they have little care for anyone (Muslims included) who do not practice their form of Islam. To them, we are mindless savages who are not exactly human.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines and the USA all worked together to solve their piracy problems with both hard force and soft projects such as infrastructure, jobs and subsidies for the impoverished island dwellers who were taking up arms in the high seas.

I don't see this happening with Somalia until we solve the root problem of anarchy in most of mainland Somalia.

Which is al-Shabab, a political and religious movement. And we do not have the balls to wipe out a religious movement for fear of being called bigots by people who wear black berets and who sip lattes and who chant things at protest rallies.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

We could start by helping the African Union control the border regions. It is the only organization that has any authority in Africa and it’s only natural to work with them to help solve the problem from the ground.

The African Union's only interest in the Somalis is in keeping them contained inside Somalia. <--- Trust me on this as that's exactly who I was working with last year from March to June.

[bootlegga]

Piracy in Somalia originally started as a way to prevent foreign fishing ships from over-fishing the prime areas off Somalia (the first group to arm themselves was actually called Somali Coast Guard), and over time, they gravitated to outright piracy because it was easier than fishing.

While I applaud using force to stop pirates, it should be professional military units doing this, not onboard mercenaries, because what will eventually happen is that ships without mercs on board (AKA most of them) will be captured and their crews simply killed outright for the $50,000 or so in cash each big ship carries in its safe. It happened all the time in the Straits of Melacca until the nations there created military anti-piracy patrols to stomp it out. Now, the Straits of Melacca, which used to be as bad or worse than the coast of East Africa, are much safer and piracy there is down by a lot.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Piracy in Somalia originally started as a way to prevent foreign fishing ships from over-fishing the prime areas off Somalia (the first group to arm themselves was actually called Somali Coast Guard), and over time, they gravitated to outright piracy because it was easier than fishing.

While I applaud using force to stop pirates, it should be professional military units doing this, not onboard mercenaries, because what will eventually happen is that ships without mercs on board (AKA most of them) will be captured and their crews simply killed outright for the $50,000 or so in cash each big ship carries in its safe. It happened all the time in the Straits of Melacca until the nations there created military anti-piracy patrols to stomp it out. Now, the Straits of Melacca, which used to be as bad or worse than the coast of East Africa, are much safer and piracy there is down by a lot.

The Straits of Malacca have some fairly prosperous nations nearby who can afford to patrol the area. What local nation do you propose to have patrol off of Somalia?

Kenya is not interested. Yemen has it's own problems. Eritrea is near as bad as Somalia...so who?

It's a lot easier for the international community to allow ships passing in the area to be armed.

[bootlegga]

I wouldn't call Malaysia or Indonesia 'prosperous'. The only such nation is Singapore, and their navy is much smaller than either of those two countries. Those patrols have received support from the US, Australia and even Japan on occasion.

The navies that should be patrolling the coast of east Africa are those who depend on it the most for the trans-shipment of goods for their nations. That is Western nations, who already have ships deployed in the area. If Kenyan and Yemeni ships were being hijacked, they would at least be trying, but given that the pirates go after richer prizes, we should be protecting ours, not relying on some 3rd world nations to do it.

[QBall]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

For every private contractor who equips a civilian boat with a missile launcher or a cal, another private contractor will sell a bigger missile to the pirates for a fiscally sound deal.

The day the pirates show up on the open ocean armed with anti-ship missiles is the day the Yanks go in and carpet bomb the ports. There isn't a chance in hell the Americans are going to let a bunch of criminals operate in their area of operations with that kind of firepower.

[BartSimpson]

QBall QBall:

The day the pirates show up on the open ocean armed with anti-ship missiles is the day the Yanks go in and carpet bomb the ports. There isn't a chance in hell the Americans are going to let a bunch of criminals operate in their area of operations with that kind of firepower.

I don't think Obama has the stones to do that.

More likely he'll just pull the US Navy out of the area.

[GreenTiger]

I hope they made him walk the plank.