[stokes]

Andy when someone puts on a uniform they are automatically held to a higher standard whether they are Police, Fire or Military. The reason you cant remeber what Bernardo did is because it wasnt the issue he was murderer, but since a colonel is accused they have plastered his military bio all over the internet showing him with high ranking officers and even the minister. They should focus on the man and not the occupation.

[andyt]

stokes stokes:

Andy when someone puts on a uniform they are automatically held to a higher standard whether they are Police, Fire or Military. The reason you cant remeber what Bernardo did is because it wasnt the issue he was murderer, but since a colonel is accused they have plastered his military bio all over the internet showing him with high ranking officers and even the minister. They should focus on the man and not the occupation.

I agree. But, I'm sure they told us what Bernardo did for a living, they do in every case. He just wasn't as prominent in his community, so it doesn't get the same play.

I do think there is a bias against the military. We ask them to kill for us, but don't really want to admit it. I do agree with holding them to a higher standard in the sense of questioning their fitness to serve if they screw up.

[2Cdo]

stokes stokes:

As a member of the military it is possible for him to serve his first two years at Club Ed unless he is given his release first.

Not for capital crimes. The military does not handle murder charges, it refers them to civilian authourities and if convicted will do all his time in civilian prison.

andyt andyt:

The military does seem to have higher than civilian cases of sexual assault, or so I read in the paper. So dad is probably right to be concerned.

Most reports show the military has a lower per capita rate for sexual assault, and about par with non-military for spousal abuse. (Just cutting that off at the pass)

Keep in mind that your military is a reflection of society and that even with all the precautions and screenings sometimes we get a POS or two.

[EyeBrock]

Stokes has a fair point. The media can't see past a uniform just like some members of this forum lump everybody in police uniform as some kind of Borg-like collective.

Already 'noted' columnists are looking for easy sound bites on how the military culture is responsible for a serial predator etc.

The media are just a total shower of shite.

[bootlegga]

Yogi Yogi:

Heavy_Metal Heavy_Metal:

hope he enjoys club Ed

My thinking is that this is/will be a civil case, hence not military prison. Or were you referring to Edmonton Max? Kingston comes to mind.
In any regard, likely he is going to 'cop a plea' and clear up a few other unsolved disappearances.

I'm guessing Club Ed is a reference to the military prison at CFB Edmonton.

I toured the old one at Griesbach 20 years ago while in the Militia and prisoners there had it tough. No food for the first 14 days (just water and vitamin supplements), and to get food they have to earn that privilege! Their cells are spotless, as are the hallways, walls and everything else. The recidivism rate (how many return for a second stint) is about .5%, while civvie prisons are somewhere in the 20% range.

I assume that the new prison is just as tough as the old one was.

[EyeBrock]

Military prisons are usually for short term prisoners or those that are held prior to a Courts Martial.

I'm not an expert on this but I do believe that this being a civil police investigation (although it's a given that the CF NIS will be involved)that the accused will be held in a local remand facility and if convicted he will be in the Federal system, as in Kingston Pen

[2Cdo]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Yogi Yogi:

Heavy_Metal Heavy_Metal:

hope he enjoys club Ed

My thinking is that this is/will be a civil case, hence not military prison. Or were you referring to Edmonton Max? Kingston comes to mind.
In any regard, likely he is going to 'cop a plea' and clear up a few other unsolved disappearances.

I'm guessing Club Ed is a reference to the military prison at CFB Edmonton.

I toured the old one at Griesbach 20 years ago while in the Militia and prisoners there had it tough. No food for the first 14 days (just water and vitamin supplements), and to get food they have to earn that privilege! There cells are spotless, as are the hallways, walls and everything else. The recidivism rate (how many return for a second stint) is about .5%, while civvie prisons are somewhere in the 20% range.

I assume that the new prison is just as tough as the old one was.

Sorry Boot but your information is wrong.
You do get food and liquids, but could be placed on bread and water for no more than 14 days with a doctors exam every day that you are on "restricted diet".

You are not allowed a "smoke break" for the first 14 days and do have to earn that privilege.

The spotless line is 100% accurate as I think you could have eaten off the floors, and I have never seen brass as shiny as it was in there.

I don't know what the recidivism rate is but I know that "repeats" are greeted extra special! It also takes twice as long to get privileges for repeats.

[SprCForr]

He'll end up in civ jail if convicted.

I'd like to think that since there was a Cpl involved and if found guilty, he'd have to do two years in the digger before serving out the rest of the sentence in a civ pen. Strip him on parade, escort him off the parade square into the waiting arms of the MP's.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

The military does seem to have higher than civilian cases of sexual assault, or so I read in the paper.

This is true. But (and that's a qualified 'but') the thing is that the military is, by design, not in sync with popular culture. So the problem is that you put women into extremely emotionally charged situations as 'brothers' and the result is that some very young, hormonally-charged young men get carried away and the young women who are trying to fit in to a situation they really don't belong in also get carried away with trying to fit in. Later on, when the regrets come along, what was a rowdy evening becomes sexual assault.

Personally, I do not want to see women in combat units because the nature of the men that puts women in difficult positions is the exact fighting nature that is needed from combat troops. Putting women into those groups means instilling sensitivity into men who will go into harms' way and who need to be able to pull a trigger and then get some rack time later on that same day.

The Israelis no longer put women into combat roles for a myriad of reasons but the most important reason is that the combat effectiveness of the troops declines when women are present.

Yes, that will piss some of you off and that's too bad. The military is for breaking things and killing people and it is NOT a social science experiment nor is it a tool for changing society. The reality is that putting women in with men who, by design, are not supposed to be outstanding singers in their church choir is sheer idiocy.

[EyeBrock]

I agree Bart.

I used to hate it when we were on Ops or Ex's, how some plain-ish military chick would be feted by the officers as if she was Miss World. They would always get special privileges, chopper rides, etc while we grunts got canned fuck-all.

Here's a good military urban legend. A PA announcement from the captain of a Royal Air Force TriStar passenger aircraft inbound to the UK from the Falklands.

"This is your captain speaking. Thank you for flying with 216 Sqn RAF. The time is 2015 local, temperature on the ground is 11 centigrade. Welcome back to England.
All female military personnel travelling with us please be advised, you are now officially ugly again."

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

This is true. But (and that's a qualified 'but') the thing is that the military is, by design, not in sync with popular culture. So the problem is that you put women into extremely emotionally charged situations as 'brothers' and the result is that some very young, hormonally-charged young men get carried away and the young women who are trying to fit in to a situation they really don't belong in also get carried away with trying to fit in. Later on, when the regrets come along, what was a rowdy evening becomes sexual assault.

Personally, I do not want to see women in combat units because the nature of the men that puts women in difficult positions is the exact fighting nature that is needed from combat troops. Putting women into those groups means instilling sensitivity into men who will go into harms' way and who need to be able to pull a trigger and then get some rack time later on that same day.

The Israelis no longer put women into combat roles for a myriad of reasons but the most important reason is that the combat effectiveness of the troops declines when women are present.

Yes, that will piss some of you off and that's too bad. The military is for breaking things and killing people and it is NOT a social science experiment nor is it a tool for changing society. The reality is that putting women in with men who, by design, are not supposed to be outstanding singers in their church choir is sheer idiocy.

I almost agree with ya there. Women SHOULD be allowed to be in combat roles but...they should be in women only units. Now before I get jumped on for that statement, let me explain. When you get several women living together, their cycles will eventually fall into sync. All ya gotta do is wait til that time of the month, send 'em into battle and the enemy won't have a prayer in the world

[Lemmy]

This whole case has me thinking about the larger issue of psychopathy and how psychopaths may, for a long time, elude detection among society. I read that psychopaths in the workplace may represent 3% of the workforce. Psychopaths tend to be driven, hardworking people. They score higher on intelligence and aptitude testing than the general population. They have great skill in lying to those around them, both underlings and superiors. Because they're adept at manipulation, they often are able to take credit for co-workers' successes and efforts, "coat-tailing" their way up the ladder while appearing to be natural leaders. Pyschopaths tend to do well in structured organizations because they adapt well to changing circumstances. They are remourseless and callous, so they have no problem in switching their "masks" to fit the circumstances.

A psychopath is very strategic. They tend to have paranoid episodes and expend great amounts of mental energy concocting responses to perceived threats. This means that they do well in corporate and military enviroments that rely on strategy as the primary means of achieving promotion. Former Yankees great and manager Billy Martin, for example, was a master strategist because he spent every waking moment countering the hypothetical moves of his opponent.

There has been a lot of research done on the relationship between psychopathy and work-place violence. It appears that Col. Williams' crimes are, at least peripherally, a form of work-place violence. Psychopaths who take their disorder to the level of "violent action" are rarely discovered until after having committed several crimes, often with escalating violence. Several posters have suggested a greater number of Williams' victims are yet to be discovered. This is certainly a position supported by research literature among psychopaths in general. http://workplaceviolencenews.com/2009/02/09/workplace-psychopaths-leave-a-trail-of-destruction/

Finally, psychopathy can be used as a mental disorder for the purposes of criminal defence. Perhaps his legal defense in this case will turn out to be insanity. In that case, he won't be going to Club Ed nor to Kingston...he'll be bound for the cracker-factory at Penetanguishene.

[bootlegga]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I'm guessing Club Ed is a reference to the military prison at CFB Edmonton.

I toured the old one at Griesbach 20 years ago while in the Militia and prisoners there had it tough. No food for the first 14 days (just water and vitamin supplements), and to get food they have to earn that privilege! There cells are spotless, as are the hallways, walls and everything else. The recidivism rate (how many return for a second stint) is about .5%, while civvie prisons are somewhere in the 20% range.

I assume that the new prison is just as tough as the old one was.

Sorry Boot but your information is wrong.
You do get food and liquids, but could be placed on bread and water for no more than 14 days with a doctors exam every day that you are on "restricted diet".

You are not allowed a "smoke break" for the first 14 days and do have to earn that privilege.

The spotless line is 100% accurate as I think you could have eaten off the floors, and I have never seen brass as shiny as it was in there.

I don't know what the recidivism rate is but I know that "repeats" are greeted extra special! It also takes twice as long to get privileges for repeats.

Well, it was 20+ years ago and I'm an old man now, so I can't be expected to remember everything everybody ever told me!

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

The military does seem to have higher than civilian cases of sexual assault, or so I read in the paper.

This is true. But (and that's a qualified 'but') the thing is that the military is, by design, not in sync with popular culture. So the problem is that you put women into extremely emotionally charged situations as 'brothers' and the result is that some very young, hormonally-charged young men get carried away and the young women who are trying to fit in to a situation they really don't belong in also get carried away with trying to fit in. Later on, when the regrets come along, what was a rowdy evening becomes sexual assault.

Personally, I do not want to see women in combat units because the nature of the men that puts women in difficult positions is the exact fighting nature that is needed from combat troops. Putting women into those groups means instilling sensitivity into men who will go into harms' way and who need to be able to pull a trigger and then get some rack time later on that same day.

The Israelis no longer put women into combat roles for a myriad of reasons but the most important reason is that the combat effectiveness of the troops declines when women are present.

Yes, that will piss some of you off and that's too bad. The military is for breaking things and killing people and it is NOT a social science experiment nor is it a tool for changing society. The reality is that putting women in with men who, by design, are not supposed to be outstanding singers in their church choir is sheer idiocy.

Doonsbury has got a little series going right now in my paper, where two women soldiers are sitting in a mess tent in some posting. One is hating all the attention she's getting from the guys. The other one says "face it, at home we're 5's, 6's at best, here, after a couple of months, we're more like 9's. Don't you like being a 9?) (Very un-pc for Doonesbury). Made me think, I bet there's a lot more fraternization going on in the army than the bras would like to admit. I'm not sure what that does for morale.

[Yogi]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Yogi Yogi:

My thinking is that this is/will be a civil case, hence not military prison. Or were you referring to Edmonton Max? Kingston comes to mind.
In any regard, likely he is going to 'cop a plea' and clear up a few other unsolved disappearances.

I'm guessing Club Ed is a reference to the military prison at CFB Edmonton.

I toured the old one at Griesbach 20 years ago while in the Militia and prisoners there had it tough. No food for the first 14 days (just water and vitamin supplements), and to get food they have to earn that privilege! There cells are spotless, as are the hallways, walls and everything else. The recidivism rate (how many return for a second stint) is about .5%, while civvie prisons are somewhere in the 20% range.

I assume that the new prison is just as tough as the old one was.

Sorry Boot but your information is wrong.
You do get food and liquids, but could be placed on bread and water for no more than 14 days with a doctors exam every day that you are on "restricted diet".

You are not allowed a "smoke break" for the first 14 days and do have to earn that privilege.

The spotless line is 100% accurate as I think you could have eaten off the floors, and I have never seen brass as shiny as it was in there.

I don't know what the recidivism rate is but I know that "repeats" are greeted extra special! It also takes twice as long to get privileges for repeats.

Bang on with the recid rate Boots. 2cdo is correct on the rest. A few years back I did some work in the cells at CFB Cold Lake. The guys were great to work with. In fact seriously offered me the use of a cell for the duration if I wanted to 'save motel costs'. I politely turned the offer down! Anyway, the rules which are apparently the same in all military lock-ups are posted, and they let me take some pics. If I can find them, I'll post.