[Curtman]

putz putz:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you were arguing to bring him back to Canada. That's what this thread and what the Supreme Court is talking about.

If you read the article that we are talking about, you will see that we are talking about the same thing.

$1:

In a unanimous decision released Friday, the court declared that Canadian officials breached Khadr's right to life, liberty and security of the person under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

However, it concluded that ordering the government to ask the U.S. for Khadr's repatriation to stop the continuing violation of his rights would interfere with the government's jurisdiction over foreign relations. Therefore, it chose not to issue the order, even though it had the authority to do so.

[Curtman]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Trial for what? That's the point of war, isn't it? To kill the enemy. The Americans run around invading countries--they kill hundreds of thousands in Iraq, and when one of theirs gets fragged they run around crying that it wasn't fair.

The Article The Article:

He is scheduled to be tried in July by a U.S. military court on charges of murder, conspiracy and support of terrorism.

Am I the only one who reads these things anymore?

[Zipperfish]

Curtman Curtman:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Trial for what? That's the point of war, isn't it? To kill the enemy. The Americans run around invading countries--they kill hundreds of thousands in Iraq, and when one of theirs gets fragged they run around crying that it wasn't fair.

The Article The Article:

He is scheduled to be tried in July by a U.S. military court on charges of murder, conspiracy and support of terrorism.

Am I the only one who reads these things anymore?

I fail to see your point.

[Curtman]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Curtman Curtman:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Trial for what? That's the point of war, isn't it? To kill the enemy. The Americans run around invading countries--they kill hundreds of thousands in Iraq, and when one of theirs gets fragged they run around crying that it wasn't fair.

The Article The Article:

He is scheduled to be tried in July by a U.S. military court on charges of murder, conspiracy and support of terrorism.

Am I the only one who reads these things anymore?

I fail to see your point.

The only point I have to make on this issue is that I expect better of my government than to ignore a Canadian citizen who is being tortured, and held without being given a trial. I expect better from the Liberal government who initially ignored him, and I expect better of the current government who ignored him. I have no idea why the Liberals are still pushing for repatriation, there's a trial date now, he's got a lawyer and I don't think he's currently being tortured.

Not so long ago, there was no trial date, no charges, no lawyer. What the government has been doing is saying that the rules don't apply because we don't like him.

[martin14]

Curtman Curtman:

The Article The Article:

He is scheduled to be tried in July by a U.S. military court on charges of murder, conspiracy and support of terrorism.

$1:

, and held without being given a trial.

ya, ok, well done


He is going through a process of trial.

A process he doesnt' deserve.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

The Article The Article:

He is scheduled to be tried in July by a U.S. military court on charges of murder, conspiracy and support of terrorism.

Curtman Curtman:

The only point I have to make on this issue is that I expect better of my government than to ignore a Canadian citizen who is being tortured, and held without being given a trial.

ya, ok, well done


He is going through a process of trial.

A process he doesnt' deserve.

Again, who gets to decide which people deserve to be treated fairly, and who doesn't? That's what judges are for aren't they?

(I fixed your quote for you, you can thank me later)

[PublicAnimalNo9]

The rules don't apply because he LEFT Canada to fight FOR a foreign terrorist organization. As far as I'm concerned, his entire family gave up their rights the minute they took up arms against us. I'm getting sick and fucking tired of pieces of shit like him hiding behind a Canadian citizenship thinking that it will protect them no matter how heinous their crimes are.
Glad to see yer so concerned about the rights of people that belong to or aid terrorist organizations. At least the US will make sure he's punished if found guilty. I can only imagine if he were in Canada. He'd get a few million by way of apology for his inconvenience and a kiss on the forehead before they send him out into the population.

[Zipperfish]

Curtman Curtman:

The only point I have to make on this issue is that I expect better of my government than to ignore a Canadian citizen who is being tortured, and held without being given a trial. I expect better from the Liberal government who initially ignored him, and I expect better of the current government who ignored him. I have no idea why the Liberals are still pushing for repatriation, there's a trial date now, he's got a lawyer and I don't think he's currently being tortured.

Not so long ago, there was no trial date, no charges, no lawyer. What the government has been doing is saying that the rules don't apply because we don't like him.

Oh, I think our government has gotten pretty good at ignoring Canadian citizens who are being tortured.

[Zipperfish]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

The rules don't apply because he LEFT Canada to fight FOR a foreign terrorist organization. As far as I'm concerned, his entire family gave up their rights the minute they took up arms against us. I'm getting sick and fucking tired of pieces of shit like him hiding behind a Canadian citizenship thinking that it will protect them no matter how heinous their crimes are.
Glad to see yer so concerned about the rights of people that belong to or aid terrorist organizations. At least the US will make sure he's punished if found guilty. I can only imagine if he were in Canada. He'd get a few million by way of apology for his inconvenience and a kiss on the forehead before they send him out into the population.

Lots of anger, not much reason.

[commanderkai]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Trial for what? That's the point of war, isn't it? To kill the enemy. The Americans run around invading countries--they kill hundreds of thousands in Iraq, and when one of theirs gets fragged they run around crying that it wasn't fair.

Just curious, did Canada declare war on the United States? I'll assume that's a no, unless you're living in an alternative universe. So, since Canada and the United States are not at war, what should we do with a Canadian citizen who killed an American soldier in a foreign battlefield?

Plus, are the Americans complaining? No. We are. Or rather, some Canadians are, usually those who hate the United States in all things. Canadians are the one trying to get him back to Canada and get him out of Gitmo, until we make a choice, the Americans are keeping him.

If Khadr did this within the United States, he'd be arrested and tried for murder, and none of this would be an issue. Since he did this in Afghanistan, things become more complicated. Is he our responsibility, or the Americans? Is he a POW, an unlawful combatant, or an innocent? In the wrong place at the wrong time?

[Curtman]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

The rules don't apply because he LEFT Canada to fight FOR a foreign terrorist organization. As far as I'm concerned, his entire family gave up their rights the minute they took up arms against us. I'm getting sick and fucking tired of pieces of shit like him hiding behind a Canadian citizenship thinking that it will protect them no matter how heinous their crimes are.
Glad to see yer so concerned about the rights of people that belong to or aid terrorist organizations. At least the US will make sure he's punished if found guilty. I can only imagine if he were in Canada. He'd get a few million by way of apology for his inconvenience and a kiss on the forehead before they send him out into the population.

I'm concerned about our rights in general. I'm also concerned that our government is choosing to arbitrarily suspend people's rights. I'm not sure who exactly is advocating to 'send him out into the population', probably his family and his lawyer..

[EyeBrock]

I don't think Charter rights apply to Canadians fighting with the Taliban and throwing grenades at US medics in Afganistan. Killing medics with red-cross armbands is never good.

Khadr lived in Eygpt and Saudi with Al Queda types and other scum. Osama Bin Laden was a family friend. His father was a miltant who had been arrested by the Pakistani's but released after Chretien personally intervened. A worthy cause indeed.

I'm not concerened about this guy one bit. He fought the yanks, got captured by them and they should deal with him.

His whole family are traitorous bastards and those not born here should be kicked out and their citizenship revoked.

[Scape]

Guilty or innocent this is an ongoing breach of the charter and any decision will be subject to the supreme court review but he will never be returned to Canada. This is not about guilt this is about how complicit the Government of Canada is in his fate and how the evidence gathered could be used to convict him.

He was tortured and our government was a willing participant in the process. Two wrongs do not make a right here. Frankly, a murder gets a life sentence and he will be serving that either in the US or Canada no matter what happens. He will not be set free but there has yet to be a trial nor does it seem evident that there can even be one because any evidence gathered was done while torturing him. The only option here is to keep him as an enemy combatant for the equivalent of a life term.

That is ad hoc justice that has no basis in law. We might as well tear up the magna carter and revert to a monarchy if anyone declared an enemy combatants and the state can deal with these plebs as it deems fit. What really is the litmus for that anyway? A trial by the media, bring on The Running Man!

[EyeBrock]

Ad hoc justice is better than what would happen to him here.

Our system does a great job of putting forward learned opinions on the finer points of law that are then debated by very well paid jurists. Right and wrong are not even examined, for our betters right and wrong are moot points. The sanctity of the charter is what they are concerned with.

All bow prostrate to the mighty charter. It now defends any liar who can con their way into Canada with a fake passport. Who cares if they are criminals?

Go and watch a few trials Scape, see our legal system in action at any court room of your choice.

There has to be more balance. Siding with guilty terrorists does just not do it for me.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

The rules don't apply because he LEFT Canada to fight FOR a foreign terrorist organization. As far as I'm concerned, his entire family gave up their rights the minute they took up arms against us. I'm getting sick and fucking tired of pieces of shit like him hiding behind a Canadian citizenship thinking that it will protect them no matter how heinous their crimes are.
Glad to see yer so concerned about the rights of people that belong to or aid terrorist organizations. At least the US will make sure he's punished if found guilty. I can only imagine if he were in Canada. He'd get a few million by way of apology for his inconvenience and a kiss on the forehead before they send him out into the population.

Lots of anger, not much reason.

Yeah, yer absolutely right. I have no reason to be angry when a bunch of pussies keep waffling on about a terrorist's rights and how he should be here in Canada. I have no reason to be angry when people commit heinous crimes abroad and then attempt to hide behind their Canadian citizenship in an effort to protect themselves from the consequences. A Canadian citizenship isn't a licence to go kill people or commit other crimes in foreign countries or against our citizens or allies. IF people don't wanna take their citizenship seriously, then they obviously don't give a shit about our Rights and Freedoms either, unless they can twist them to their own ends.
And quite frankly, I'm major pissed off at the Cretin cuz if it wasn't for that sub-moronic tool, this wouldn't even be an issue in the first place.
Why is our system concentrating on bringing this piece of shit home when it should be going after the Cretin for rescuing and bringing a KNOWN terrorist, with KNOWN links to al-queda AND bin-laden, into Canada?