[Curtman]

PimpBrewski123 PimpBrewski123:

Is there any particular reason why ''this'' prorogation is being protested while others before were never contested, whether it be from any other government.

Seems like a media creation, or perhaps only some dude on Facebook sure!!!

Anyways, there were barely any mention about any previous prorogations, now that the CPC does it, like it's news worthy all of sudden.

Yes.

Because 3 out of 4 sessions from this government were ended early by prorogue. The fourth was to call an early election.

Because 36 bills died this prorogation, where it is typical to prorogue when the work of the house is completed and they wish to start another session.

Because the duration of the prorogue is so long. It's normal to prorogue in order to allow the house to start a new session earlier, not to end one prematurely.

Because there was an ongoing investigation into the detainee issue, where the Conservatives were required to hand over documents they didn't want to hand over.

Because it is possible for Stephen Harper to delay sitting of the house instead of avoiding the senate committee, and killing 36 bills.

Probably several other reasons that don't come to mind at the moment.

The media is largely ignoring this issue, and and not reporting it well when they do. I can't see how you think the media is forcing this on people.

[Gunnair]

$1:

Gunnair Gunnair:

So it is. Irony's lost on you apparently.

Bury your head much in the sand lately Gunnair? The Liberals prorogued Parliament all the time for self-serving political reasons, like avoiding the Somalia inquiry, to hide from the adscam, and so Jean Chretien could avoid a leadership race with Paul Martin.

Maybe. Fact is, it's 2010, not the 90's. The internet is a very powerful tool for keeping the average Canadian informed. As you can see, it's very easy now to bring media attention to political protest, and for a single person to inspire national protest with the click of a mouse. Try the same fifteen years ago.

Oddly enough, the examples you give for proroging parliament are exactly the reasons why better informed Canadians dislike the idea of proroging - it suggests the Government has something to hide from, like the Afghan Detainee Inquiry.

That explosive 'plop' you may hear might be your own head emerging soon...

[tritium]

Gunnair Gunnair:

That explosive 'plop' you may hear might be your own head emerging soon...

yeah funny guy..

Harper rejects Afghan detainee inquiry. I would say smart move, doesn't want it to be a black eye on Canada or Canada's military. You should respect that.

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2293757

Besides, what will happen? The Gov't will prosecute a few low-level enlistees for their involvement in abuse of a few prisoners. A few sacrificial lambs in time of war.

In Afghanistan, Canada and the USA are at war with an ideology, and with people that would kill our soldiers any chance they get.

So if they use sleep deprivation, stress positions to gain vital information from Afghan detainees to save lives, so be it.

[Gunnair]

$1:

Gunnair Gunnair:

That explosive 'plop' you may hear might be your own head emerging soon...

yeah funny guy..

Harper rejects Afghan detainee inquiry. I would say smart move, doesn't want it to be a black eye on Canada or Canada's military. You should respect that.

Good reason why you're not a member of the military.

No issue with lying. No honour.

What I respect, as a member of the military, is the rule of law. Though I doubt there is much to the allegations, the investigation should be allowed to run its natural course and without political intrusion to either demonstrate to Canadians that the Government and its military were not complicit in torture or they were. Because I am a member of the military does not mean I shy away from the truth or the consequences that may come with it.

Taking responsibility. Try it sometime.

By the way... the Mtbr/Gigs schtick of ending your limp jabs with smiley faces is really lame. Get a new trick for that pony...

[kenmore]

tritium tritium:

Curtman Curtman:

A good time was had by all.

Good time, yeah just a bunch of Liberals in one big circle jerk.

Who the F&%k cares of Parliament is closed during the Olympics.

I think they should force every elected politician to sit through every dam game at the Vancouver Winter Olympics...

Patriotism or torture, you call it.

Who cares? thousands of people .. except some tory tards I guess

[Curtman]

tritium tritium:

Gunnair Gunnair:

That explosive 'plop' you may hear might be your own head emerging soon...

yeah funny guy..

Harper rejects Afghan detainee inquiry. I would say smart move, doesn't want it to be a black eye on Canada or Canada's military. You should respect that.

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2293757

Besides, what will happen? The Gov't will prosecute a few low-level enlistees for their involvement in abuse of a few prisoners. A few sacrificial lambs in time of war.

In Afghanistan, Canada and the USA are at war with an ideology, and with people that would kill our soldiers any chance they get.

So if they use sleep deprivation, stress positions to gain vital information from Afghan detainees to save lives, so be it.

What it does is justify the enemy in using those tactics against us. We can't claim the moral high ground and 'win the hearts and minds' if we support people who use torture. It undermines everything we do there.

There is evidence that it happened, the question is whether we knew it was happening. If we didn't know it was happening, everything is fine and good as long as we change our behaviour now that we know it has happened. The fact that they are going to great lengths do avoid answering questions about it makes it seem probable that they did know.

[PimpBrewski123]

Point taken Curtman.

Still, seems a little suspicious that all of a sudden, there is this fuss over prorogation while other governments, PLC included, have had at it previously.

I will not pretend to be a connaisseur on the matter, but seems to me that that the current government has been unfairly criticized in the media. Perhaps cause Harper's reluctance of revealing his politics to the media since the beginning of his mandate.

[kenmore]

tritium tritium:

Gunnair Gunnair:

That explosive 'plop' you may hear might be your own head emerging soon...

yeah funny guy..

Harper rejects Afghan detainee inquiry. I would say smart move, doesn't want it to be a black eye on Canada or Canada's military. You should respect that.

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2293757

Besides, what will happen? The Gov't will prosecute a few low-level enlistees for their involvement in abuse of a few prisoners. A few sacrificial lambs in time of war.

In Afghanistan, Canada and the USA are at war with an ideology, and with people that would kill our soldiers any chance they get.

So if they use sleep deprivation, stress positions to gain vital information from Afghan detainees to save lives, so be it.

Harper avoids everything...when the going gets rough he packs up his toys and runs. trying to hold on to power and find some has been broadcasters to fill the senate so he can control them..

[Gunnair]

PimpBrewski123 PimpBrewski123:

Point taken Curtman.

Still, seems a little suspicious that all of a sudden, there is this fuss over prorogation while other governments, PLC included, have had at it previously.

I will not pretend to be a connaisseur on the matter, but seems to me that that the current government has been unfairly criticized in the media. Perhaps cause Harper's reluctance of revealing his politics to the media since the beginning of his mandate.

Might have to do with the whole concept of openess that was espoused by the CPC. I have l,ess issue with him stopping business to tinker with the senate than I do with him disrupting the detainee inquiry. As a member of the military, I want that sorted out soonest so I don't have joe public with a nagging thought in the back of their mind. The same guys that pay my salary and hopefully buy me new ships.

[tritium]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Good reason why you're not a member of the military.

No issue with lying. No honour.

What I respect, as a member of the military, is the rule of law. Though I doubt there is much to the allegations, the investigation should be allowed to run its natural course and without political intrusion to either demonstrate to Canadians that the Government and its military were not complicit in torture or they were. Because I am a member of the military does not mean I shy away from the truth or the consequences that may come with it.

Taking responsibility. Try it sometime.

By the way... the Mtbr/Gigs schtick of ending your limp jabs with smiley faces is really lame. Get a new trick for that pony...

Gunnair; so what if this is not the time for an inquiry.

What if an inquiry may disclose information that could endanger Canadian lives.

It's not that I am against an inquiry, however there is a time for everything.

...and don't try to play your holier than thou attitude, I have had family members who have fought and died for Canada in both World Wars, as well as served myself for a short time.

[Gunnair]

tritium tritium:

Gunnair; so what if this is not the time for an inquiry.

What if an inquiry may disclose information that could endanger Canadian lives.

It's not that I am against an inquiry, however there is a time for everything.

...and don't try to play your holier than thou attitude, I have had family members who have fought and died for Canada in both World Wars, as well as served myself for a short time.

Fear mongering to hide information. A sad last resort.

I will do my holier than thou though, when I am holier than thou...

Your answer seems to be to 'lie to the people or at best hide the truth from the people', mine is not. I believe my profession has a higher moral mandate than that. That makes me think I'm better than you.

Sorry if that bothers you...

[PimpBrewski123]

Gunnair Gunnair:

As a member of the military, I want that sorted out soonest so I don't have joe public with a nagging thought in the back of their mind. The same guys that pay my salary and hopefully buy me new ships.

As a for being an ex-military myself, sure, I mostly support the right. Although, it's more about policies than anything else though, that for any political parties. That's why, throughout my time on this forum, I have never bashed the Libs or anything. Only that I prefer the CPC's position on certain political issues.

And Harper, IMO, has been good. Only that I do not particularly care for the bias played in the media, that's all.

[Gunnair]

PimpBrewski123 PimpBrewski123:

Gunnair Gunnair:

As a member of the military, I want that sorted out soonest so I don't have joe public with a nagging thought in the back of their mind. The same guys that pay my salary and hopefully buy me new ships.

As a for being an ex-military myself, sure, I mostly support the right. Although, it's more about policies than anything else though, that for any political parties. That's why, throughout my time on this forum, I have never bashed the Libs or anything. Only that I prefer the CPC's position on certain political issues.

And Harper, IMO, has been good. Only that I do not particularly care for the bias played in the media, that's all.

I've voted both Liberal and Conservative, though I've found myself more Conservative leaning as I get older (or is that maturing? ) There's a lot of things the Liberals have done in the past that I find disgusting, but I do not attribute that to a Liberal ideology but more of a coruption. Put the Conservatives in power with no real opposition for a decade and I'll put money down to say you'd see the same level of corruption.

If the Conservatives went down the toilet tommorow and the Liberals all of a sudden pulled it out of the crapper and tossed out a wicked platform that I liked, guess who'd get my vote? Whoever does the best for the country, and right now, that's the CPC, but I'm still a bit cautious though, and for Harper, these shenanigans will not get him a majority - it'll reenforce the suspiciuon that keeps him in a minority. Hence, I'm a pissed off CPC supporter right now.

[tritium]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Fear mongering to hide information. A sad last resort.

I will do my holier than thou though, when I am holier than thou...

Your answer seems to be to 'lie to the people or at best hide the truth from the people', mine is not. I believe my profession has a higher moral mandate than that. That makes me think I'm better than you.

Sorry if that bothers you...

Yeah, well your self-righteously attitude doesn't go very far with me.

I believe that during war an inquiry would weaken moral and possiblely disclose vital information or knowledge to the enemy combatants.

There is clearly a time and place for these things, and during war is not.

I don't thank that an inquiry would even hurt Harper at the polls.

The Liberals knew in 2004 that Afghan prisons were dens of torture and killings, yet, they still arranged to have Cdn detainees handed over to the ANP and without followup inspections!

Not only that, under Liberal government, the Red Cross was not notified of transfers for up to 3 months... but the Harper govt fixed that by April 2006.

Here's the report they had before making the Dec 2005 agreement.

http://www.aihrc.org.af/AnnualRep.pdf

I look forward to an inquiry, just not at this time.

[tritium]

Curtman Curtman:

What it does is justify the enemy in using those tactics against us. We can't claim the moral high ground and 'win the hearts and minds' if we support people who use torture. It undermines everything we do there.

Remember Daniel Pearl, the American Jewish journalist who was kidnapped, tortured and murdered in Karachi, Pakistan.

I guess those enemy combatants broke out the Geneva Convention right before the chopped off the guys head.