[ASLplease]

being able to pass an exam means you know and understand the work and have no problem producing it.

The smuck that takes it home is either a self employed keener, or a f#cken idiot.

[Brenda]

ASLplease ASLplease:

being able to pass an exam means you know and understand the work and have no problem producing it.

The smuck that takes it home is either a self employed keener, or a f#cken idiot.

Being able to pass an exam is showing you know the answers to the questions at that particular period in time, not necessarily again tomorrow.

Assignments are no replacements for exams. Then again, if you havent finished your exam during the time set for it, you fail.

[Lemmy]

Lateness is a discipline issue, not an academic one. That is the argument. You don't fail a kid in his math class if he punches another student in the school yard or shows up drunk at school. Disciplinary issues have nothing to do with achievement and demonstration of curricular expectations.

[Brenda]

So what is your solution? Expel the ones that are always late?

I disagree, btw. The assignment is "make/create/write this and this, and have it on my desk by then and then". If you cannot deliver, you fail.

[DrCaleb]

ASLplease ASLplease:

being able to pass an exam means you know and understand the work and have no problem producing it.

The smuck that takes it home is either a self employed keener, or a f#cken idiot.

And a 'pass' shouldn't mean you only know 50% of it. Schools I went to, 'pass' was 80% and if you didn't achieve that as an average, you repeated the course. They were also odd in that the instructors would stay till all hours of the night to help you achieve that 80%.

And, I am a self employed keener. Why should any one else benefit from my hard work? But if I don't 'hand in' my 'assignments' on time and correctly - I fail {to get paid}.

I agree Lemmy, it's a discipline thing, but not having some sort of punishment for tardiness sets a bad example.

[ASLplease]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Lateness is a discipline issue, not an academic one. That is the argument. You don't fail a kid in his math class if he punches another student in the school yard or shows up drunk at school. Disciplinary issues have nothing to do with achievement and demonstration of curricular expectations.

ability to d boring homework is a discipline issue too. You don't fail a person that aces every exam if he is too damned busy learning other new stuff that he desn't bother to do his homework assignements.

[ASLplease]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

ASLplease ASLplease:

being able to pass an exam means you know and understand the work and have no problem producing it.

The smuck that takes it home is either a self employed keener, or a f#cken idiot.

And a 'pass' shouldn't mean you only know 50% of it. Schools I went to, 'pass' was 80% and if you didn't achieve that as an average, you repeated the course. They were also odd in that the instructors would stay till all hours of the night to help you achieve that 80%.

And, I am a self employed keener. Why should any one else benefit from my hard work? But if I don't 'hand in' my 'assignments' on time and correctly - I fail {to get paid}.

I agree Lemmy, it's a discipline thing, but not having some sort of punishment for tardiness sets a bad example.

Sorry, in the real world every day is is an exam,if you don't have what it takes to get things done right then its too late to take it home and play catch up in the evenings. My employer is a 24/7 operation, there is no 'catching up', if you can't produce, then you deserve to be fireed.

[ASLplease]

in the real world, the number at the bottom of my pay stub is based on what i do during the day, no one pays me to work after hours, and if I cant get the job done when its time to get it done, then I wouldn't have the job. People that go around looking for extra credits by doing homework live in a fantasy world.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

So what is your solution? Expel the ones that are always late?

I disagree, btw. The assignment is "make/create/write this and this, and have it on my desk by then and then". If you cannot deliver, you fail.

Nope. You're talking about learning skills, not achievement. They are different things. If the kid doesn't submit the assignment then they must find another way of demonstrating the curriculum outcomes. If they can't, then they fail, but penalizing them for lateness is not curricular, it's disciplinary. If the kid got 20 out of 25 questions right, he still got 20/25 whether it was in on time or not.

[Brenda]

My boss (or any one elses boss) is not going to agree with that.

[Lemmy]

ASLplease ASLplease:

Sorry, in the real world every day is is an exam,if you don't have what it takes to get things done right then its too late to take it home and play catch up in the evenings. My employer is a 24/7 operation, there is no 'catching up', if you can't produce, then you deserve to be fired.

That's old-world thinking, as far as secondary school curriculum goes. Highschool kids aren't doing a job in the work-world, they're learning curriculum. They are to be graded for their mastery of the curriculum, not their learning skills nor their behaviour. That's just the way it is now. And you're absolutely correct, if they hand in work late in the work world, the punishment is to be sacked from the job. But highschool isn't the work world and the expectations aren't comparable.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

My boss (or any one elses boss) is not going to agree with that.

They don't have to agree with it. They can make whatever expectations of their employees they want. But your boss can't withhold your pay or tell you "I'm deducting 10% of your pay because your work was done late", can he? His choices are keep you or fire you.

[Brenda]

They should though... Call me old school, but I always thought the intention of learning something is to be able to use it for the rest of your life. You can't use "school behaviour" in your work life, and you work more than you go to school. I think school should fit onto the work world, and not the other way around.

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Brenda Brenda:

My boss (or any one elses boss) is not going to agree with that.

They don't have to agree with it. They can make whatever expectations of their employees they want. But your boss can't withhold your pay or tell you "I'm deducting 10% of your pay because your work was done late", can he? His choices are keep you or fire you.

If I work on commission, hell yes, he does

[Mustang1]

This is only a trend in some educational circles. Many educators disagree with the current policies and many administrators echo a similar sentiment. Curriculum expectations are constantly in flux and while zeros and late penalties aren't formally forbidden by assessment/evaluation criteria, they could be, unless the public and teachers and other stakeholders make a stink about the inherent issues currently in education.

This "no zero"/"no late" phase will pass (pardon the pun).