[Brenda]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Not in my lifetime. Or my childrens...

Probably your lifetime,. Definitely your childrens.

Like the cooling of the 70's? Meh.

[Hyack]

Since so many people use charts to prove their claims....

[DerbyX]

Why do the people who claim the science supports their view of AGW/climate change so quick to dismiss proof that ice is shrinking in perma-frozen areas? Seems to me that if you believe that humanity has nothing to do with it then you'd happily say "yep, the ice caps are melting but its not our fault".

[DerbyX]

Brenda Brenda:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Not in my lifetime. Or my childrens...

Probably your lifetime,. Definitely your childrens.

Like the cooling of the 70's? Meh.

Except that bonafide scientists were not claiming that. The hype of an impending ice age due to particulate buildup wasn't being supported by the mainstream science that global warming is today.

[Brenda]

First off, I never said the Earth is not warming. It is, since we are still at the end of an ice age. Next thing that is going to happen, is that it is going to cool again. Why? Next ice age. It has been like that for millions of years.

What makes it all so special now? We have the technology to measure it, THUS it is all our fault. I call bs on that. Mankind is not "big" enough to fool Mother Nature.

[Zipperfish]

Brenda Brenda:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Not in my lifetime. Or my childrens...

Probably your lifetime,. Definitely your childrens.

Like the cooling of the 70's? Meh.

Well, if we're still ranting away here in 2030, we'll see if you've changed your mind by then. Let's bet a beer on it!

[CanadianJeff]

The science (real science as in published journals of science) doesn't actually point to global cooling at all you know.

What it really points to is that we have waves of heat and cold that tend to fluctuate about the same time in waves every few thousand years. That's why so many scientists examining the temps of the past 100 years concluded we were warming up. Because over the past century we have warmed up.

This idea is often called the Milankovitch cycles. Just google it and you can get loads more then any site I could link to.

However the further they looked back the more they realized it was just a pattern of warming and cooling that has gone on for longer then we have been around on earth meaning it wasn't possible for humans alone to be the cause of the current warming phase.

Basically many scientists panicked when the amount of data they had supported the idea of a doomsday and jumped on board to stop it. Further investigation made them realize they had erred and we get to our current state of people not knowing what to believe.

Part of the problem lies with how quickly the media grabbed hold of the global warming idea and part of the problem lies with that many of these scientists don't want to admit what a HUGE blunder they made with their methods.

In the end the one thing we do know for certain is that regardless of anything people have been predicting doomsday and the end of time since time began for humans. I'm sorry I do realize that someday our sun will burn out but you'll forgive me if I call most everyone who predicts a current days doomsday not to be believed without much more solid evidence.

Sorry global warming. Not biting.

[Zipperfish]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Why do the people who claim the science supports their view of AGW/climate change so quick to dismiss proof that ice is shrinking in perma-frozen areas? Seems to me that if you believe that humanity has nothing to do with it then you'd happily say "yep, the ice caps are melting but its not our fault".

That's because most sceptics actually hold three viewpoints simultaneously:

(1) The earth is not warming,
(2) The earth is warming but we have nothing to do with it, and
(3) Sure we're warming the Earth but, hey, it's all good.

[Brenda]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well, if we're still ranting away here in 2030, we'll see if you've changed your mind by then. Let's bet a beer on it!

You got yourself a date

[DerbyX]

Brenda Brenda:

First off, I never said the Earth is not warming. It is, since we are still at the end of an ice age. Next thing that is going to happen, is that it is going to cool again. Why? Next ice age. It has been like that for millions of years.

What makes it all so special now? We have the technology to measure it, THUS it is all our fault. I call bs on that. Mankind is not "big" enough to fool Mother Nature.

Well a few big details are these:

1) Humanity is living in practically every square KM of the earth. That wasn't true during all those climate changes in the past. We are interfering with any natural rhythm the earth has just like we have thrown ecosystems out of whack through foreign species introduction, land usage. Its like shifting a sine wave out of step. It forever alters the wave.

2) While humanity will survive just about the worst of what nature can throw at us, a lot of less adaptable species will not. In the past as the earth warmed and cooled species migrated along their habitable zones. A species might find out that its habitable zone in an earth many degrees hotter is now downtown Toronto. How many of these species will be ones we depend on.

[DerbyX]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Why do the people who claim the science supports their view of AGW/climate change so quick to dismiss proof that ice is shrinking in perma-frozen areas? Seems to me that if you believe that humanity has nothing to do with it then you'd happily say "yep, the ice caps are melting but its not our fault".

That's because most sceptics actually hold three viewpoints simultaneously:

(1) The earth is not warming,
(2) The earth is warming but we have nothing to do with it, and
(3) Sure we're warming the Earth but, hey, it's all good.

Where have I heard that before?

[gigs]

I laugh every time I hear this ad on the radio . It's time to cut the BS about Global Warming. Sandorski must be the guy with the one liner

http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/ ... ROUGHT.MP3

this ones even better

http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/ ... RS_NOW.MP3

[Zipperfish]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

The science (real science as in published journals of science) doesn't actually point to global cooling at all you know.

What it really points to is that we have waves of heat and cold that tend to fluctuate about the same time in waves every few thousand years. That's why so many scientists examining the temps of the past 100 years concluded we were warming up. Because over the past century we have warmed up.

This idea is often called the Milankovitch cycles. Just google it and you can get loads more then any site I could link to.

However the further they looked back the more they realized it was just a pattern of warming and cooling that has gone on for longer then we have been around on earth meaning it wasn't possible for humans alone to be the cause of the current warming phase.

Basically many scientists panicked when the amount of data they had supported the idea of a doomsday and jumped on board to stop it. Further investigation made them realize they had erred and we get to our current state of people not knowing what to believe.

Part of the problem lies with how quickly the media grabbed hold of the global warming idea and part of the problem lies with that many of these scientists don't want to admit what a HUGE blunder they made with their methods.

In the end the one thing we do know for certain is that regardless of anything people have been predicting doomsday and the end of time since time began for humans. I'm sorry I do realize that someday our sun will burn out but you'll forgive me if I call most everyone who predicts a current days doomsday not to be believed without much more solid evidence.

Sorry global warming. Not biting.

But then it begs the question that (a) since we're emitting so much CO2 into the atmosphere (about a million kg a second), and (b) carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas which radiates in the infrared spectrum, then why isn't it getting warmer?

That to me would be a much more interesting, though unlikely sceanrio, than global wamring. It would be like adding hot water to a cold drink and seening no increase in temperature.

[Zipperfish]

Brenda Brenda:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well, if we're still ranting away here in 2030, we'll see if you've changed your mind by then. Let's bet a beer on it!

You got yourself a date

OK, you guys are witnesses--if manmade global warming is not completely evident by 2030, I owe Brenda a beer!

[Brenda]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Brenda Brenda:

First off, I never said the Earth is not warming. It is, since we are still at the end of an ice age. Next thing that is going to happen, is that it is going to cool again. Why? Next ice age. It has been like that for millions of years.

What makes it all so special now? We have the technology to measure it, THUS it is all our fault. I call bs on that. Mankind is not "big" enough to fool Mother Nature.

Well a few big details are these:

1) Humanity is living in practically every square KM of the earth. That wasn't true during all those climate changes in the past. We are interfering with any natural rhythm the earth has just like we have thrown ecosystems out of whack through foreign species introduction, land usage. Its like shifting a sine wave out of step. It forever alters the wave.

2) While humanity will survive just about the worst of what nature can throw at us, a lot of less adaptable species will not. In the past as the earth warmed and cooled species migrated along their habitable zones. A species might find out that its habitable zone in an earth many degrees hotter is now downtown Toronto. How many of these species will be ones we depend on.

Every living organism alters the wave forever. Everytime you (or any other animal) throws a rock into the river, it changes the flow...
Nature takes it course, that is why dinosaures aren't around anymore. Or dodo's... Can't blame that on man...