[Lemmy]

I'm a labour economist. There has rarely been a strike in the past 50 years in Canada that was not as much one side's fault as the other's. To blame either union or management is usually ignorant. It takes two to tango.

[gonavy47]

ASLplease ASLplease:

$1:

I've worked all my life without a contract!

I have had to sign them, and I've never belonged to a union. Companies love contracts. Banks love contracts. Lawyers love contracts. Car Dealers love contracts. Telephone companies love contracts. Hell, even my local gym loves contracts.

There is nothing inherently wrong with contracts. In fact, getting 2 sides to sit down and sign a contract generally reduces conflict and dispute.

$1:

What the hell does anyone need a contract for?

I have a feeling that was what the management has been saying for several months while the workers were working without one as an act of good faith.

$1:

'You' want more, you do more. 'You' think you're worth more? Go in, and discuss it with your employer. If he/she agrees with you, you'll get 'more'. THAT is called negotiating! If 'they' don't agree with you, ya 'flip'em the bird', and start pounding the pavement.

many companies don't negotiate. They have a HR department that dictates all policy. If you really love negotiating, I hope you speak with just as much hate about these types of companies.

$1:

Unions are just another business taking money from our pockets.

"If they dont agree with you, ya flip'em the bird, and start pounding the pavement" Welcome to the real world!

You can't feed your family by "flipping the bird", welcome to the real world.

[gonavy47]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'm a labour economist. There has rarely been a strike in the past 50 years in Canada that was not as much one side's fault as the other's. To blame either union or management is usually ignorant. It takes two to tango.

The handicapped can't tango.

[Lemmy]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

The handicapped can't tango.

No? You've never watched the Special Olympics on TSN? Not even for a few minutes?

[ASLplease]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

ASLplease ASLplease:

$1:

I've worked all my life without a contract!

I have had to sign them, and I've never belonged to a union. Companies love contracts. Banks love contracts. Lawyers love contracts. Car Dealers love contracts. Telephone companies love contracts. Hell, even my local gym loves contracts.

There is nothing inherently wrong with contracts. In fact, getting 2 sides to sit down and sign a contract generally reduces conflict and dispute.

$1:

What the hell does anyone need a contract for?

I have a feeling that was what the management has been saying for several months while the workers were working without one as an act of good faith.

$1:

'You' want more, you do more. 'You' think you're worth more? Go in, and discuss it with your employer. If he/she agrees with you, you'll get 'more'. THAT is called negotiating! If 'they' don't agree with you, ya 'flip'em the bird', and start pounding the pavement.

many companies don't negotiate. They have a HR department that dictates all policy. If you really love negotiating, I hope you speak with just as much hate about these types of companies.

$1:

Unions are just another business taking money from our pockets.

"If they dont agree with you, ya flip'em the bird, and start pounding the pavement" Welcome to the real world!

You can't feed your family by "flipping the bird", welcome to the real world.

are you kidding? there are so many benevolent non-union companies out there for you to work fo you dont need a union, no one needs a union.

[ASLplease]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'm a labour economist. There has rarely been a strike in the past 50 years in Canada that was not as much one side's fault as the other's. To blame either union or management is usually ignorant. It takes two to tango.

The handicapped can't tango.

While the workers worked for months without a contract, I would have hoped that management would understand this.

[gonavy47]

ASLplease ASLplease:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'm a labour economist. There has rarely been a strike in the past 50 years in Canada that was not as much one side's fault as the other's. To blame either union or management is usually ignorant. It takes two to tango.

The handicapped can't tango.

While the workers worked for months without a contract, I would have hoped that management would understand this.

Which union are you in? You sound like you're in one. It's very easy to be flippant about working anywhere, but when you have small children, and rent to pay, you take what you can get. I finally was in a position to go to work for a company on the management side. I wouldn't go into another union for anything. Only interested in one thing, how much they can get. You try to work somewhere and not join the union, the mob mentality takes over, you are ostracized or worse. The brotherhood of labour, my ass! Welcome to the real world. The school of hard knocks. Where I got my degree in labour relations.

[Lemmy]

What I don't understand, every time there's a thread on unions, is why there's so much anger on this issue? If you don't work for the company or the union in question, why do you even care? If you aren't in a union, why does it bother you that unions exist? It's none of your business. It doesn't affect you. I just don't get why people who aren't in unions are angry at them. I don't like pork chops. Why would I give a shit if someone else likes them or not?

[Yogi]

Lemmy Lemmy:

What I don't understand, every time there's a thread on unions, is why there's so much anger on this issue? If you don't work for the company or the union in question, why do you even care? If you aren't in a union, why does it bother you that unions exist? It's none of your business. It doesn't affect you. I just don't get why people who aren't in unions are angry at them. I don't like pork chops. Why would I give a shit if someone else likes them or not?

Of course unions affect non-union people!

Let's say you work for XYZ, manufacturing widgets. The price to the market is a buck per widget. It is what it is!
Now, you and all your co-workers decide to unionize cuz you want higher wages, more holidays, (all paid if ya kin get 'em)! Better hours, full benefits including paid sick-leave, dental, etc. etc. etc....

OK. now the company has reached an agreement with you and given most, if not all you have demanded, cuz if they don't, they know that XYZ Widget Manufacturing Inc., -which 'Grandpa & his 4 sons' started with $75.00 and a lot of sweat, sacrifice and hard work- is gonna go down the tubes because of the impending labor strife that has been a very real threat. But it's only a two year contract, and everyone knows that when the contract expires it's going to be a repeat....repeat...repeat...repeat...

Will I still be able to purchase my much needed widgets for a buck each now? Not bloody likely! Now I gotta raise my prices to my customers cuz the price of widgets went up to cover the union demands. It's a chain-reaction.
Unions and their mostly ridiculous demands, have been the downfall of many companies, resuting in a great number of people being out of a job! No. Unions don't affect me at all!

[Hyack]

Lemmy Lemmy:

What I don't understand, every time there's a thread on unions, is why there's so much anger on this issue? If you don't work for the company or the union in question, why do you even care? If you aren't in a union, why does it bother you that unions exist? It's none of your business. It doesn't affect you. I just don't get why people who aren't in unions are angry at them. I don't like pork chops. Why would I give a shit if someone else likes them or not?

It's the same old thing, union vs non union, this argument has been going on for years , and will continue for years to come.... same old/same old...

[ASLplease]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

ASLplease ASLplease:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

The handicapped can't tango.

While the workers worked for months without a contract, I would have hoped that management would understand this.

Which union are you in? You sound like you're in one. It's very easy to be flippant about working anywhere, but when you have small children, and rent to pay, you take what you can get. I finally was in a position to go to work for a company on the management side. I wouldn't go into another union for anything. Only interested in one thing, how much they can get. You try to work somewhere and not join the union, the mob mentality takes over, you are ostracized or worse. The brotherhood of labour, my ass! Welcome to the real world. The school of hard knocks. Where I got my degree in labour relations.

I am not in any union, never have been.

And as far as 'you take what you can get' I know you really don't believe that. 90 out of a 100 workers in this country have jobs....Those are good odds.


The thing I like most about unions is they replace arbitrary and discriminatory practices with policy and procedure....much like ISO quality systems.

Its funny how many of the non-union types love pro-management things like ISO Quality management systems, yet they prefer the free for all discrminatory model for labour management.

[gonavy47]

You take what you can get, when you are a high-school dropout, yes I really do believe that. Please don't tell me what I believe. 90 out of 100 workers may have jobs, but how many actually like what they are doing? My answer to you is , maybe half, maybe lower. You must have a university degree to talk the way you do.

[ASLplease]

No, I dont have a university degree, and thank god for that. I might have ended up with too much education and not enough common sense.

I'm a blue collar technical worker, trades level. I can make 40k per year or I could make 100k per year. IMO, it wouldn't really matter because its only a working wage and whatever i make will get spent. an extra 1000sq feet to my house is highly overrated. Give me time to go camping, and i'll enjoy life better.

There are more important things in life than money. It's not my goal to be the richest man in the graveyard.

[Lemmy]

Yogi Yogi:

Let's say you work for XYZ, manufacturing widgets. The price to the market is a buck per widget. It is what it is!
Now, you and all your co-workers decide to unionize cuz you want higher wages, more holidays, (all paid if ya kin get 'em)! Better hours, full benefits including paid sick-leave, dental, etc. etc. etc....

OK. now the company has reached an agreement with you and given most, if not all you have demanded, cuz if they don't, they know that XYZ Widget Manufacturing Inc., -which 'Grandpa & his 4 sons' started with $75.00 and a lot of sweat, sacrifice and hard work- is gonna go down the tubes because of the impending labor strife that has been a very real threat. But it's only a two year contract, and everyone knows that when the contract expires it's going to be a repeat....repeat...repeat...repeat...

Will I still be able to purchase my much needed widgets for a buck each now? Not bloody likely! Now I gotta raise my prices to my customers cuz the price of widgets went up to cover the union demands. It's a chain-reaction.
Unions and their mostly ridiculous demands, have been the downfall of many companies, resuting in a great number of people being out of a job! No. Unions don't affect me at all!

That's a common fallacy among people that don't understand economics. Price is derived from demand, not supply.

[ASLplease]

Yogi, you dont know how to run a business.

- I'd invest in equipment, skills, and automation. A $20/hr worker with the right equipment can produce more than an unskilled $12/hr worker...you don't want a $7/hr worker, those guys manage to screw up your McOrder every time you go through the drive thru.