[Benn]

bootlegga bootlegga:

It's ridiculous that our relations with the world's SECOND largest economy is crap.

Chretien is definitely right that Harper should have worked harder at his relations with China and Africa, but our loss of stature occurred slowly over the past three decades, as defense spending and foreign aid bottomed out. Chretien is guilty for some of that blame (as well as Mulroney and Trudeau before him).

I'd post a link but sadly few main stream media outlets have reported how in the few years of the Harper Government the Foreign Affairs budget cuts have seen most Embassies with 50% cuts in funding and more recently yet another hiring freeze (when there is a 20% vacancy rate in some areas) at DFAIT as well as an reduction in diplomatic representation of 400 overseas (CTV Power Play Oct 17 or 18th - Actually reported!) Before anyone says big whoop consider Canada's diplomatic representation overseas is already near the bottom in comparison to the other G-20 nations.

Every throne speech mentions the importance of the global marketplace and global relations and a week later, unpublicized, comes a memo to cut cut cut.

[gonavy47]

bootlegga bootlegga:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

China's two repressions were different because WHAT!? They were still repressions! How the hell can you defend them for a gentler repression of Tibet? They know that there is sensitivity to the Dalai Lama in the west, so they tread carefully. They are still a totalitarian state, and in that sense, they are not forgivable! AT ALL!

Where did I say I forgave them?

I basically said that because of the huge trade surpluses which basically underwrite their entire economy (aka engagement), they know there are repercussions to such incidents, which makes their reactions much more tempered than they were in the past.

That is progress, whether or not you agree with it.

To portray a "minor repression" as "progress" is ridiculous. You didn't say you forgave them, but by saying what you did, you are acting as an apologist for this regime. Whether you realize it or not.

[EyeBrock]

Navy, I agree with boot's sentiment. We can't hold the past against the Chinese, but we can remember it.
To drag up old shit isn't constructive.

We just need to believe they won't do that shit again and we need to tell them that as we sign contracts.

[ridenrain]

We could waffle that China's teeming millions are better off with their new plastic junk or that their still downtrodden pesants but the fact remains that Chretien is doing this simply because of his own business interests and not for any higher purposes.

[kenmore]

Canada's stature on the world stage has gone down the toilet ever since harper has been in power.. Maybe thats why he is always in the john... trying to pull it back out!

[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

We could waffle that China's teeming millions are better off with their new plastic junk or that their still downtrodden pesants but the fact remains that Chretien is doing this simply because of his own business interests and not for any higher purposes.

There's no waffling about it, Chinese people are far better today than they were in 1989. Back then the per capita GDP was only $406/year, today it is $3180. My basic math skills tell me that's roughly 750% increase. Without engagement and better trade access (like entrance into the WTO), the average Chinese citizen would be far worse off than they are today, as most Western nations on that list only doubled their GDP over the same time period.

http://investintaiwan.nat.gov.tw/en/env ... a_gdp.html

That chart also shows how much of a hit China took AFTER Tiananmen Square (their GDP dropped about 12% in each year compared to 1989), and it was only after Clinton and other Western leaders started talking to the Chinese again that their GDP began to increase.

Of course not every Chinese citizen has benefited from China's rapid growth over the past 20 years, but neither has every Canadian benefited from the Information Highway either.

[ridenrain]

They definately are making more money but their no closer to a government that is representative of the people. I doubt the families of the thousand kids who were recently found with dangerously high lead levels would agree with their unbridled and unrestrained growth.

[gonavy47]

kenmore kenmore:

Canada's stature on the world stage has gone down the toilet ever since harper has been in power.. Maybe thats why he is always in the john... trying to pull it back out!

Canada's stature on the world stage was always weakened by the liberals policy of not having a strong and well-equiped military. We are still living this legacy, decades of under-funding and the long road back from that mistake
.

[EyeBrock]

kenmore kenmore:

Canada's stature on the world stage has gone down the toilet ever since harper has been in power.. Maybe thats why he is always in the john... trying to pull it back out!

I'd say it's gone up and I'd put that all down to the Afghanistan mission that Chretien and Martin put the CF on.

Whenever I look at the UK coverage on Afghanistan, Canada is always mentioned.

The re-patriation ceremony and the procession through Wootten Bassett is a direct result of the 'highway of heroes' and the Canadian public's involvement with the whole thing.

But Chretien was never a fan of the CF so he wouldn't see the link between our active military role and the fact that people are sitting up and taking notice of Canada again, especially in Europe and NATO.

[kenmore]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

kenmore kenmore:

Canada's stature on the world stage has gone down the toilet ever since harper has been in power.. Maybe thats why he is always in the john... trying to pull it back out!

Canada's stature on the world stage was always weakened by the liberals policy of not having a strong and well-equiped military. We are still living this legacy, decades of under-funding and the long road back from that mistake.


What planet have you been living on? It was the great Pierre Trudeau that put this country on the map and gained recognition of our people and our way of life. The liberals have governed this country for most of the years of its existence and have done a great job by the way. The torys on the other hand have always got us into deep financial trouble and Mulroney almost sold us down the US river.. When you get back to reality... you can reply.

[PluggyRug]

kenmore kenmore:

What planet have you been living on? It was the great Pierre Trudeau that put this country on the map and gained recognition of our people and our way of life. The liberals have governed this country for most of the years of its existence and have done a great job by the way. The torys on the other hand have always got us into deep financial trouble and Mulroney almost sold us down the US river.. When you get back to reality... you can reply.

Why would he want to reply to a statement of fantasy?

[gonavy47]

kenmore kenmore:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

kenmore kenmore:

Canada's stature on the world stage has gone down the toilet ever since harper has been in power.. Maybe thats why he is always in the john... trying to pull it back out!

Canada's stature on the world stage was always weakened by the liberals policy of not having a strong and well-equiped military. We are still living this legacy, decades of under-funding and the long road back from that mistake.


What planet have you been living on? It was the great Pierre Trudeau that put this country on the map and gained recognition of our people and our way of life. The liberals have governed this country for most of the years of its existence and have done a great job by the way. The torys on the other hand have always got us into deep financial trouble and Mulroney almost sold us down the US river.. When you get back to reality... you can reply.

The great Pierre Trudeau was the biggest joke in Canadian history. How old are you? Did you live through his era? He sold out the military, he brought in the metric system-by the way, our biggest trading partner still uses imperial measurements. His policies on "frenchifying" Canada encouraged the FLQ to act, because they saw him as a friend to the cause. Trudeau even thought that Hitler wasn't evil enough to join the army and fight against. The man was a complete joke, not only to a great number of Canadians, but to the world as well. Reality is what you have lived through my friend, don't presume to lecture me on my country's history.

[Bodah]

kenmore kenmore:

What planet have you been living on? It was the great Pierre Trudeau...

Sorry, I stopped reading at that point.

[Public_Domain]

[Public_Domain]