[gonavy47]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

There are tens of thousands of rejected refugee claimants still in Canada, going through expensive appeals, costing us thousands in welfare and healthcare.

We are pandering to an industry that has a vested interest in keeping failed claimants here. Everytime there is another appeal process it's money from the public coffers that ends up in a lawyer's or immigration 'consultant's pockets.

Nobody has the political balls to change it.

One appeal process. If your claim fails you go into a secure facility prior to deportation, then gone.

There are plenty of decent people trying to get to Canada and plenty of real refugees who we should be letting in. Kick out the liars and cheats, quickly.

Hear,Hear!
Both of my parents worked, so I was unsupervised for the most part. I didn't join a gang, I didn't get into trouble, and I certainly didn't shoot anybody!

[BeaverFever]

ridenrain ridenrain:

..so this is a problem?

Only if you think Canada should be a place that takes in good people who are fleeing death or persecution. If you are the type that has no problem sending a law-abiding woman back to someplace where she will be gang-raped and murdered just because shes a foreigner and doesnt have the proper form filled out, then I guess theres no problem at all.

Its a well known fact that the IRB is poorly structured and that law-abiding immigrants and refugees often get the boot over technicalities just because they are easy targets - not because the gov is anti-immigrant but because they know a significant amount of Canadians are regularly outraged over the random stories of
immigrant criminals, etc. but those people are hard to hunt down.

The gov can come forward and says Hey, we deported x number of immigrants last year, were cracking down on foreign gangs! But really for the most part theyre just rounding up mostly innocent people due to technicalities and shipping them out to meet unofficial quotas.

[gonavy47]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

ridenrain ridenrain:

..so this is a problem?

Only if you think Canada should be a place that takes in good people who are fleeing death or persecution. If you are the type that has no problem sending a law-abiding woman back to someplace where she will be gang-raped and murdered just because shes a foreigner and doesnt have the proper form filled out, then I guess theres no problem at all.

Its a well known fact that the IRB is poorly structured and that law-abiding immigrants and refugees often get the boot over technicalities just because they are easy targets - not because the gov is anti-immigrant but because they know a significant amount of Canadians are regularly outraged over the random stories of
immigrant criminals, etc. but those people are hard to hunt down.

The gov can come forward and says Hey, we deported x number of immigrants last year, were cracking down on foreign gangs! But really for the most part theyre just rounding up mostly innocent people due to technicalities and shipping them out to meet unofficial quotas.

And you have proof to your claim that they are just rounding up innocent people who haven't got the right forms filled out? I have a hard time believing that.

[ridenrain]

$1:

While the figure represented a six-year high, it was still far less than the 44,000 cases received in 2001 and 39,000 in the following year. While there was an increase in claims in 2008, the government also completed far fewer cases than in the past.

Sweet Jesus! Chretien was throwing out people? Oh the progressive humanity!

Spin away.

[EyeBrock]

Oh give me a break BF.

We had such stars in the IRB as Khaled Mouammar:

National Post, 7th March 2009

"The government is being urged to re-examine all refugee cases heard by Khaled Mouammar, the current president of the Canadian Arab Federation, following the revelation that his acceptance rates were nearly twice the national average during a decade-long stint on the Immigration and Refugee Board.

Mr. Mouammar, an outspoken supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah, recorded an acceptance rate of 100% when it came to refugees from North Africa and the Middle East during his time with the IRB between 1995 and 2005, according to statistics obtained by the National Post. Although cases from the Middle East represented only a tiny fraction of his overall caseload, the 68-year-old orthodox Christian, who was born in Palestine, also accepted each claim he heard against Israel during the period, while the rest of the IRB accepted just 10% of Israel claims."

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada ... id=1363169


The system is broke.

"41,000 illegal immigrants gone missing."

http://www.thestar.com/article/422383

[BeaverFever]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

There are tens of thousands of rejected refugee claimants still in Canada, going through expensive appeals, costing us thousands in welfare and healthcare.

We are pandering to an industry that has a vested interest in keeping failed claimants here. Everytime there is another appeal process it's money from the public coffers that ends up in a lawyer's or immigration 'consultant's pockets.

Nobody has the political balls to change it.

One appeal process. If your claim fails you go into a secure facility prior to deportation, then gone.

There are plenty of decent people trying to get to Canada and plenty of real refugees who we should be letting in. Kick out the liars and cheats, quickly.

"Tens of thousands??" do you have a link for that figure, please, it seems high. Hundreds seems more resonable, maybe a 4-digit # by my guess but a 5-digit number seems an unreasonable estimate.

Anyway, the point of the article is that deportations are up over the past decade and that most of those deportations are the result of an increasing numberof rejected refugee claims, and that suggests that many claims are even unfairly rejected on technicalities. So the idea that gov is "pandering to an industry" and there are no "balls to change it" seems like a stretch too.

Are there people here who dont deserve to be here? Of course. Are there people denied or deported who deserve to stay? Yes. The system is deficient in both directions and I dont think it can be characterized as either "too lax" or "too strict". It is both.

[EyeBrock]

41,000 close enough? I think that's 'tens of thousands'.

http://www.thestar.com/article/422383

Oh it's all gone quiet, all gone quiet, all gone quiet over there!

[ridenrain]

.. oh yeah.. Facts. The inconvienient pothole in the road to a good smear campaign.

[EyeBrock]

Easy meat RR! He didn't stick around to challenge a report the Auditor General did.

[BeaverFever]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

41,000 close enough? I think that's 'tens of thousands'.

http://www.thestar.com/article/422383

Oh it's all gone quiet, all gone quiet, all gone quiet over there!

nope, just missed your post, our posts were 3 minutes apart. Good links and valid points about ENFORCING deportation orders, but those are not people who are "going through appeals" or "costing us thousands in welfare and healthcare". These people are OFF THE GRID. We dont know if they left the country or not, thats a different situation than those who are still on the grid and fighting deporation, which is what you were referring to. Those are people who were DENIED but as far as gov can tell have not been REMOVED. For sure, there are many who use the system to prolong their deportation through appeals, but I doubt these are in the "tens of thousands".

gonavy47 gonavy47:

And you have proof to your claim that they are just rounding up innocent people who haven't got the right forms filled out? I have a hard time believing that.

the original article of this thread makes that exact claim. This is about bureaucrats picking the "low hanging fruit". "Filling out the wrong form" is just an allegory to illustrate people who are caught in a technicality:

$1:

...

Who is being deported

W-FIVE wanted to find out just who is getting deported. In St. John's Newfoundland, there has been a flurry of deportations and we went to see what kind of person is unfit to live in this country. Alexi Kolosov is one of those cases. He's a Russian fisherman who was stranded in St. John's nine years ago. A skilled net maker, he found work teaching young fisherman this lost art. He applied to stay in Canada and brought his son over. But just months ago, Immigration rejected his application.

Rather than leave, Alexi took sanctuary in the West End Baptist Church. It's a spartan existence, but Alexi now has four Canadian grandchildren. His son, already deported, started a family in Newfoundland. And the children depend on their grandfather for emotional and financial support.

Pastor Gordon Sutherland is the man who has given Alexi sanctuary. He recognizes he's breaking the law, but he says "there are times when we have to answer to a higher authority. And the policy or practice of sanctuary is one that goes back to the Old Testament."

Another person Immigration has ordered deported is Vladimir Ronenson. A carpenter by trade, his skills were in high demand in St. John's. The shop where he worked actually hired extra people to complete contracts brought in by Ronenson. He says his family moved to Canada to avoid religious persecution.

With a home and a mortgage and his son in his last year of high school, Immigration has rejected the Ronenson's refugee application and ordered them deported.

The cases in St. John's, a city that is trying to attract skilled immigrants, has some people up in arms. Weekly protests have been held and the local media have been running stories about how unfair these deportations are.

"Low hanging-fruit"

The situation in St. John's is not an isolated one. It's happening right across Canada. Nail the easy cases and virtually ignore the rotten apples. In fact, the whole Immigration system seems designed to allow criminals to play it like a fiddle. There are appeals, and there are appeals to the appeals. And if you know how the system works, you can stretch the process out for years.

When ordered out, many criminals just don't show up at the airport. Immigration has a task force to find them, but they're overworked and they may not know where you are. In the case of Gomez-Lopez, Immigration had an address for him that didn't even exist. And in the case of Sandra Gordon, W-FIVE found that the address Immigration had for her was a locked office near Toronto.

Richard Kurland is a well-known immigration lawyer in Vancouver. He says the system is set up to go after people who are easy to deport. "What's easier for you to do? Catch grandmothers or criminals?" says Kurland. "It's as simple as that. Do you want to finish your day at 5:30 or 1:00 in the afternoon? If you go after the grandmothers and the sisters, you're home early. If you want to go after the hardened criminals, you got to burn that midnight oil."

Quota system

Kurland's theory is backed up by an internal Immigration report obtained by W-FIVE that states: "...removal officers also reported that they are required to meet quotas ... the number of removals ... comes first, not the quality of the work they do."

...

http://www.canadaka.net/link.php?id=50279

As for the man who was removed from the IRB for having a poor track record, well the fact that he was removed shows that he was the exception, rather than the norm and that his practise was not desirable. Otherwise they would not have removed him.

[leewgrant]

For the longest time the IRB was filled on a pure patronage basis - it was a big scandal 20 years ago and a appointment process was then developed. The problem with that is that many of the appointees were those interested in the issue and it was long suspected that they were a bit free and easy in letting people in. I suspect that the current government has tightened up the appointment process with people more neutral; that could be the reason for the increase in the numbers of deportations.

[BartSimpson]

Deporting people who fail to fill out forms correctly is easy. Deporting people who DESERVE to be deported is hard because the 'usual suspects' will predictably emerge from their holes to spout out claims of "RACISM!!!" when some guy who's an admitted Al Qaeda supporter gets the boot.

[Patish]

ridenrain ridenrain:

ASLplease ASLplease:

gangs are formed from immigrants that have to work so hard...their children grow up unsupervised.

In a sense, its our fault for not providing better working conditions.

..or because they never leave their ethnic and mesh into society?
I think your off definately base on this one.

I don't dislike this kind of people. I just don't understand them.
We've huge Russian community there in Israel and this is my community. Almost 90 percent lives within community and only last 10 percent has native friends, knows Hebrew well and likes the country. The first group considers that natives are basketcase and the best place to live is Russia. Man, you live here 10 years, why you don't take your ass back to Russia ? That people built this country, what have you done ?
And these ugly things take a place in Canada as well.

[BeaverFever]

ridenrain ridenrain:

ASLplease ASLplease:

gangs are formed from immigrants that have to work so hard...their children grow up unsupervised.

In a sense, its our fault for not providing better working conditions.

..or because they never leave their ethnic and mesh into society?
I think your off definately base on this one.

the former encourages the latter, both are contributors to gangs

[kenmore]

If they deported those who have committed crimes that are being housed in pens across Canada, they could lay off half the correction workers... The pens around Kingston are full of men waiting for deportation but are caught up in the so called red tape..