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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:43 am
 


OldChum OldChum:
At least Jack is making it work and it is better then forcing something nobody wants an election . Trust me it is better or I feel Mr America may get his ass kicked .


Like Iggy did back in march and june? So if and when this coalition between the NDP and CPC fails we can blame them for it right?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I think the NDP would back the CPC just due to selfish interests in avoiding an election. They'll bleed seats badly if we goto the polls.


Tories - credit for avoiding an election
NDP - credit for getting EI changes
Liberals - can blame the Dips for keeping the government in power.

:D





PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:26 am
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
So if and when this coalition between the NDP and CPC fails we can blame them for it right?



ROTFL ROTFL


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:00 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Jack Layton is just hoping, even praying, that this will make him somewhat relevant.

I think the NDP would back the CPC just due to selfish interests in avoiding an election. They'll bleed seats badly if we goto the polls.

Jack's voted against everything Harper has put on the table. They said they'd vote against the budget before even reading it.

The NDP will support the CPC to save their own ass.

Period.


Considering the NDP have been the only party thus far that makes any damn sense in the whole thing, I'd say you're wrong.

They voted against everything Harper put on the table because everything Harper has put on the table has been nothing but a bit FU to every other party and were means to force them to vote for what he wants or face an election and then be blamed for it.

The NDP wern't going to vote for the budget before seeing it is a bit of a stretch, considering just about everybody, including people simply watching the news got a gist break down of what it included, which was nothing except more attempts to attack all the other parties, thus bringing about the Coalition idea.

And yet that's not the Con's fault?

The only reason why we went to an election last time was because Harper figured he could win a few more seats and perhaps get a majority. He even broke his promise on not calling an election for four years just to try and gain a few more seats.

And now we have the polls suggesting that the Liberals might get a minority, thus we have Iggy trying to pull the exact same stunt. Forget any logical and worthwhile reasons to goto an election, it's got nothing to do with the country or our best interests, it's got everything to do with either the Conservatives or Liberal's own positions in government..... they've both forgotten wtf they're they for in the first place.

But Harper, be it on purpose or by finally using his brain, knows nobody wants to go into another election, and the NDP also don't want another election, which is why they opted for the Coalition idea in the first place (to avoid another election) Now the NDP are back in the same position and still see, just as the Cons see, that nobody is hyped up for another election except the Liberals.

Go figure they would, after their dismal ass kicking they got in the last election, they've got a taste for a come back, no matter the cost.

Since Harper has been in power, the NDP's position has always been to get the government to work and for the parties to work together.... that's how minorities work. If the Cons don't want to work with anybody and just shove their crap down everybody's throat.... why support that?

If they're willing to work, then they'll work together.... last I checked, that's how things are supposed to be done.

And the NDP will bleed out seats?

They have been gaining in seats for quite some time, and they haven't screwed anything up in any comparison to the Cons or Liberals. The only two parties that stand to lose anything in another election will be the Cons and Libs.

The NDP have been consistant.

The Cons have not and have been continually trying to operate in a dictatorship manner to get what they want and screwing everything up along the way.... only wanting to work with other parties when their ass is in the sling.

The Liberals have not been consistant, and Iggy has double talked, back peddled, says one thing/does another for so long now..... on top of trying to cause an election just because the polls say they might get a small minority.

I don't know... when looking at the reality of the overall situation, you tell me who's got more to lose on this.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:18 am
 


Great post except for:

$1:
The Liberals have not been consistant, and Iggy has double talked, back peddled, says one thing/does another for so long now..... on top of trying to cause an election just because the polls say they might get a small minority.


I would say the Liberal brand has not been consistent because it has gone from Jean to Martin to Dion to Iggy and perhaps it will end up with Rae. That is within 5 years, how is Iggy really to be held to task for a party that went from strong man dictator to an NDP flim-flam man? It's the brand that has become inconsistent and that was because of the infighting between Jean and Martin who could not gracefully pass the torch so then EVERY SINGLE SENIOR LIBERAL FLED after that fight leaving the kiddy table to fight over the scraps of the abandoned grown up table in the Liberal party. Now I grant you that Iggy and Rae couldn't make peace and Dion ended up running the party but Iggy has yet to even run the party and it was only today that he set out anything that resembled a vision so how could he be seen as a double talker on policy when he has yet to launch any?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:42 am
 


Scape Scape:
Great post except for:

$1:
The Liberals have not been consistant, and Iggy has double talked, back peddled, says one thing/does another for so long now..... on top of trying to cause an election just because the polls say they might get a small minority.


I would say the Liberal brand has not been consistent because it has gone from Jean to Martin to Dion to Iggy and perhaps it will end up with Rae. That is within 5 years, how is Iggy really to be held to task for a party that went from strong man dictator to an NDP flim-flam man? It's the brand that has become inconsistent and that was because of the infighting between Jean and Martin who could not gracefully pass the torch so then EVERY SINGLE SENIOR LIBERAL FLED after that fight leaving the kiddy table to fight over the scraps of the abandoned grown up table in the Liberal party. Now I grant you that Iggy and Rae couldn't make peace and Dion ended up running the party but Iggy has yet to even run the party and it was only today that he set out anything that resembled a vision so how could he be seen as a double talker on policy when he has yet to launch any?


Well I didn't really want to elaborate beyond this current government formation, but after Martin, Dion sure didn't help their direction any. Everytime he got on the camera to complain about the Conservatives, he pumped the Liberal chest up so much and acted like they were going to do something, only to make everybody in his party walk out of the vote to avoid a non-confidence on a number of occasions and claimed afterwards that it was in protest of something or another.

Them walking out wasn't a protest, it's just voters not getting their voices heard by those they voted into power to speak for them, AKA: not doing their damn job.

Iggy is just continuing the trend it would seem.... just a big bag of hot air (ie: loud farts that linger around) but has no substance.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:57 am
 


Well, that's why he had no choice but not support the government so he has effected change. Dion may have puffed up his chest and then ran when the vote was cast but I can't see Iggy being able to do that. It simple is not an option at this point. In a minority there needs to be two parties that can reach a consensus in order to govern. With Dion it was Harper leading and Dion afraid of the polls and when the election was held and Harper wanted to carry on with the same dance Dion pulled the coalition to put a stop to it. The only thing new here is Harper has changed dance partners from Dion for Layton but it's the same dance routine. Iggy has no reason to dance here so why should he? Harper has done nothing to work with any other party and under a minority that is his mandate but he runs the country as if he was in it for himself. If Harper truly wants to keep a mandate he needs to work with someone not issue edicts. What terms has Harper publicly offered any other party? Will the Canadian people ever be privy to these back room deals behind closed doors? That's why I think the NDP/CPC marriage is doomed because it is destined to be a short term back room deal not subject to review. That's not a mandate.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:48 am
 


True, I don't see the NDP and Conservatives dealing with one another for very long. The longest would be for 6 months or however long it takes for people to be ready for an election.

Until then, all we're going to see is the Conservatives doing their same-ol routine of pushing everybody around, and never talking to other parties until they're put into another corner again..... and when that happens, we'll only see a bone or two tossed towards whatever party suits the Conservatives.

But at least one or two things are being done in the process... although it seems to take forever, it's still not as long as it would be if we went through yet another election, months of pointless party ads and propaganda, nobody doing their jobs, and ending back with another Minority that doesn't do anything, yet again.

It seems as though the only way for our government to do anything is through force and election threats and after all of that, then and only then do we see a small trickle of some form of progress in the things Canadians need.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:09 pm
 


Praxius Praxius:
Until then, all we're going to see is the Conservatives doing their same-ol routine of pushing everybody around, and never talking to other parties until they're put into another corner again..... and when that happens, we'll only see a bone or two tossed towards whatever party suits the Conservatives.


There has been 79 votes passed by the house and the opposition has zilch to show for it. The time to tango has passed and the Liberals simply will not deal with the government as it stands. Harper has backed the opposition into a corner and has become a victim of his own success. He now faces an election with no prospect of a majority and a good chance he will lose seats and have an even stiffer opposition and more united in the house when the next Parliament resumes to boot. Harper bleating that this is not in Canada's interest just like he did last December. Harper has interests but those are not necessarily Canada's and when he can't even win a majority after multiple attempts he is in no position of authority to determine what Canada's interests are and this is why Harper is going to the polls YET AGAIN.

At some point if he can not force his will (and after 79 votes of no contest he has had more then had his chance) something will have to give. If not him then his party and when it comes to that the party will boot him out because it better to have some say at the table then none at all. That's not the fault of Harper, he has tried his best to govern from a nearly impossible position but his own base simply refuses to support any bridge building. We get the government we deserve and until there is compromise between the rank and file of the main parties, not just the leaders, there will be no majorities in Canada's future.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:18 pm
 


Kinda think the oppostion has backed harper into the corner.. none of the so called 79 votes as you say would have any impact on unemployment or the economy.. harper has held the country and parliament hostage long enough... time to go to the polls.





PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:20 pm
 


ahhhh I just found the ignore button :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:21 pm
 


While Harper is in the process of being sued for his illegal election, called in part to take advantage of his weakening of Stephane Dion; but more to halt the investigation into the Conservative's alleged criminal activity in the "In and Out" scandal; he's now out and about in secretive meetings, once again bringing up the threat of a coalition with "separatists" and "socialists", to gain support.

Is this man incapable of honesty, or does he just think Canadians are absolute idiots?

We know his entire campaign of insanity during the parliamentary crisis was based on lies. LIES, LIES and MORE LIES!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:40 pm
 


I don't think it's Harper who backed the Liberals into a corner but Dion. He left the party in an awful bind and this bluster by Iggy is the only way they can get out of it.
Simply blaming Harper for the problems ignores the fact that the opposition, including the Liberal dominated senate, often refused to back things before they were even read. Who wasn't making parliament work again?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:13 pm
 


Praxius Praxius:
te for what he wants or face an election and then be blamed for it.

The NDP wern't going to vote for the budget before seeing it is a bit of a stretch, considering just about everybody, including people simply watching the news got a gist break down of what it included, which was nothing except more attempts to attack all the other parties, thus bringing about the Coalition idea.



No, not a stretch at all. It's exactly what Jack Layton said.

This whole concept of "attack" was because the NDP, Bloc and Liberals were afraid of losing their handout of $1.95 a vote.


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