[Smacle]

SigPig SigPig:

Smacle Smacle:

If I start to take a signalers advice on cam and concealment I should probably start thinking of transfering to a different trade.

Ya because I don't ever operate in a field environment. Get bent.

Let's be honest, I have seen the new whites and I have seen someting almost exactly the same used by the marines and I did not see any difference in concealment that would justify the cost. Period.

Your time in the field? having your hand held through a platoon attack perhaps? It makes a difference during any recce patrol and static defence position. Once the shooting starts the cam isn't as much of a factor but everything leading up to the event depends on the element of surprise. Signalers, as well as medics, don't normally go with the advance parties during a tactical op, I've never seen it. Which is why we are mostly trained in both fields.

[SigPig]

Smacle Smacle:

Your time in the field? having your hand held through a platoon attack perhaps? It makes a difference during any recce patrol and static defence position. Once the shooting starts the cam isn't as much of a factor but everything leading up to the event depends on the element of surprise. Signalers, as well as medics, don't normally go with the advance parties during a tactical op, I've never seen it. Which is why we are mostly trained in both fields.

Yes that's right, hand held through a PL attack.

Let me guess you are an infantard who thinks he can do my job because you were taught how to use a 522 and a 521. Don't try to claim you are mostly trained in my field, just like I don't try to pretend I know how to do yours. You probably don't even have the sec clearance to even know about parts of my job. And to think Sigs are never part of advance parties shows how limited your knowledge is.

[Smacle]

SigPig SigPig:

Yes that's right, hand held through a PL attack.

Let me guess you are an infantard who thinks he can do my job because you were taught how to use a 522 and a 521. Don't try to claim you are mostly trained in my field, just like I don't try to pretend I know how to do yours. You probably don't even have the sec clearance to even know about parts of my job. And to think Sigs are never part of advance parties shows how limited your knowledge is.

I'm not claiming to know how to do your job but we don't need signalers to show us how to trouble shoot our 522s while on patrol. If we can't fix it by ourselves in the field (not at camp) then it's because it is N/S and needs repairs which you couldn't do if you did happen to be with us at the time anyways. You're claiming that you have a better expertise on the effect of cam and concealment than the infantry. You have a lot of jobs that I have no idea how to do but it has nothing to do with the current topic.

Tactical advance parties, as in a recce patrol... You've done a recce with recce platoon? Crawled around with the snipers? spent several hours clover leafing an objective?

[SigPig]

$1:

I'm not claiming to know how to do your job but we don't need signalers to show us how to trouble shoot our 522s while on patrol.

Sometimes yes, but others I have had to trouble shoot some ridiculously basic things for all trades including infantry (eg unfloding AE and even once turning the damn things on).

$1:

If we can't fix it by ourselves in the field (not at camp) then it's because it is N/S and needs repairs which you couldn't do if you did happen to be with us at the time anyways.

Not aalways NS. Ctrypto does messed up things sometimes and it needs to be reloaded, someting we do for you.

$1:

You're claiming that you have a better expertise on the effect of cam and concealment than the infantry.

Show me where i said that. I just got my back up because you outright dismissed any knowledge I might have because of my trade.

$1:

Tactical advance parties, as in a recce patrol... You've done a recce with recce platoon?

Yes I did in the States. Recced a village prior to going in with the infantry to take it.

$1:

spent several hours clover leafing an objective?

See above.

And how did we get into snipers? The topic was the kit requirements for the average soldier, not elite units that have snipers.

[BartSimpson]

SigPig SigPig:

Can't say I fully understand what you are asking. Why wouldn't they?

If you're going to complain about the expense of camoflauge then you need to understand why it is used at all.

Mortality rates decline when proper camoflauge is used. That's the principle reason for using it and if you don't want to use proper camoflauge then don't bother with it at all. Just send the troops out in their class B's.

[SigPig]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

SigPig SigPig:

Can't say I fully understand what you are asking. Why wouldn't they?

If you're going to complain about the expense of camoflauge then you need to understand why it is used at all.

Mortality rates decline when proper camoflauge is used. That's the principle reason for using it and if you don't want to use proper camoflauge then don't bother with it at all. Just send the troops out in their class B's.

Obviously I understand that part, which is why I didn't understand what you were trying to get at.

I was just saying that I didn't see how the cam we use now has significantly contributed to higher mortality rates, and furthermore how much different the new cam would be to improve it to the extent that would make it worth while.

If I just go by the article it doesn't seem to be implying that a large number of deaths have been caused by the cam we use now. It appears to me that they are trying to specialise a little too much when it isn't entirely necessary.

Hey, I may be wrong and what they end up developing may prove to be a resounding success but with the info in front of us now, I don't see the necessity.

[Smacle]

"Let's be honest, I have seen the new whites and I have seen someting almost exactly the same used by the marines and I did not see any difference in concealment that would justify the cost. Period."

You're right that you didn't claim anything upfront but as an infanteer I can tell you that this statement of yours contradicts mine and I have good reason to believe that my statement holds more weight.

"Sometimes yes, but others I have had to trouble shoot some ridiculously basic things for all trades including infantry (eg unfloding AE and even once turning the damn things on)."

New guys get put in charge of fixing the radios for experience which is why you get such rediculous issues lol.

"Not aalways NS. Ctrypto does messed up things sometimes and it needs to be reloaded, someting we do for you."

I've always had to load my own crypto, you guys write the program.

"Yes I did in the States. Recced a village prior to going in with the infantry to take it."

That's impressive for a signaler. You been in for quite some time then eh?

"And how did we get into snipers?"

Snipers aren't an elite unit, they are infantry soldiers with a qualification.

[BartSimpson]

Camo is just part of going out with the right tools for the job and the situation. The right camo for the right environment is every bit as important as the right weps for the tasking.

And we're just talking about visual spectrum camo here. Can't wait to see you look at a req for infrared camo.

http://www.rta.nato.int/Activity_Meta.asp?Act=SCI-114

[SigPig]

Smacle Smacle:

"Let's be honest, I have seen the new whites and I have seen someting almost exactly the same used by the marines and I did not see any difference in concealment that would justify the cost. Period."

You're right that you didn't claim anything upfront but as an infanteer I can tell you that this statement of yours contradicts mine and I have good reason to believe that my statement holds more weight.

I think they call that just a difference of opinion and is a necessity for a debate lol.

$1:

I've always had to load my own crypto, you guys write the program.

Fair enough. Though it does depend on the situation, sometimes we do it all for you others not.

$1:

That's impressive for a signaler. You been in for quite some time then eh?

Not in all that long, just managed to find good opportunities for good experience. See, we don't just sit at camp waiting to fix your radios which is why I love what I do. I can be employerd anywhere in any situation.

$1:

Snipers aren't an elite unit, they are infantry soldiers with a qualification.

Semantics

[Smacle]

Haha, semantics. The whole "Airborne" thing is semantics as well. God I hate jumpers. They all have an ego like they are elite but they just have a qualification, like I have HMG which a lot of them.. most of them don't. I work with both jumpers and snipers and belive me there's nothing elite about them.

[PENATRATOR]

Smacle Smacle:

Haha, semantics. The whole "Airborne" thing is semantics as well. God I hate jumpers. They all have an ego like they are elite but they just have a qualification, like I have HMG which a lot of them.. most of them don't. I work with both jumpers and snipers and belive me there's nothing elite about them.

Not exactly sure why you decide to talk about elitist mentality here, yet on the previous page you go ahead and light up Sigpig

"If I start to take a signalers advice on cam and concealment I should probably start thinking of transfering to a different trade

Let me guess, you are a young soldier, still buy into the "rah rah" infatry We lead others follow, got a full sleeve tattoo, probably the Barb wire on the bicep also, wear your regimental T-shirt, black jeans and runners to the ranks on Friday night?

Relax there "oldtimer" Sigpig, as a currently serving soldier, can very well speak on the pros and cons of cammoflage and being in the field, their are more 031's stacked up working in ADM Coy or range control than there are Signalers.
Feel free to drop the elitist attitude.

[SigPig]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Relax there "oldtimer" Sigpig, as a currently serving soldier, can very well speak on the pros and cons of cammoflage and being in the field, their are more 031's stacked up working in ADM Coy or range control than there are Signalers.
Feel free to drop the elitist attitude.

I realize and never tried to claim otherwise, I just don't take well to people taking potshots at sigs as people who just sit in camp and wait to fix radios. I never tried to claim I was any better than he was just that comms are my specialty and no 031 is as well trained as I am on such a wide range of comms eqpt. Just like an infanteer will always be better then me at room clearing and recce's no matter how many times I get attached.

[ridenrain]

Strictly speaking, since almost all of our casualties are caused by IEDs, the colour of their clothes isn't a factor. Their not being picked off because their spotted, their being blown up becuse their moving.

[bootlegga]

True, but camo can make a big difference if our guys are sneaking up on a Taliban encampment.

[ridenrain]

Just stating the obvious here. I don't presume to get in the way of a discussion I'm not qualified in but I just thougt we might get back to the actual case here. Every man in perfect cammo won't help if they get blown up when their driving down the road. It will help when they get out but then the taliban have shown again and again that they suck when they stand and fight.