[ManifestDestiny]

Scape Scape:

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

Scape Scape:

The US famous for the saying give me liberty or give me death but with out your health you have nothing.

Do you sit around all day waiting for the next time your going to get sick?

You have as much control over being sick as anyone else. It is half chance and half choice. Do you decide when your going to have cancer?

NO I dont but if I ever do I would want the best care possible and putting that in the care of the Goverment does not make me feeel comfortable.

[Scape]

I suppose you would want the best army possible too like a private army? How did that work out with the Contra's in Nicaragua and with contractors in Iraq?

[Donny_Brasco]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

We have many people who are dying because they can't get simple medical help. There are other problems that people have that are much more complicated. Up north they can get treated, in many cases down here your rooked.

And in Canada they have people dying cause they cant get medical help cause they have to wait!!!!

I would not trade the fraction of a fraction of a percent that die waiting in Canada to the scores in the USA who are without insurance...or worse yet have someone tell them their insurance does not cover their condition so they have to die.

I have no first hand knowledge of someone in Canada who died waiting. I have always had first class treatment at every level - my dad waited a year and a half for a hernia operation...no one likes to wait but most rational people understand that a hernia is not life threatening.

There is no comparison. I do not worry that is I get swine flu or break a leg jacking around on the roof of my house that I'm going to be stuck with bills from a doctor that I need to refinance my house to pay.

There is no need to check with my insurance company to pre-approve anything before I seek medical help for anything.

Take the billions that Americans spend supporting the healthcare insurance industry and put it toward medicine.

$1:

Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States...43 million uninsured.

http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175

[ManifestDestiny]

On the border between the US and Ontario, we see the "fruits" of socialized medicine every day. Hundreds of patients from Canada coming to the hospitals on the US side for treatment, surgery and whatever else they need. Why? The infamous waiting lists and inadequate medical providers in Canada.
Oh Canada...

[ManifestDestiny]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

We have many people who are dying because they can't get simple medical help. There are other problems that people have that are much more complicated. Up north they can get treated, in many cases down here your rooked.

The Canadian system works fine for minor problems, but danger lies ahead as baby boomers age and more serious illnesses afflict them. Call it "Canadazation," the myth of high-quality, "free" care. Its real costs in human suffering are ones that U.S. proponents don't want you to know about.

[Donny_Brasco]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

NO I dont but if I ever do I would want the best care possible and putting that in the care of the Goverment does not make me feeel comfortable.

Do you feel comfortable that some HMO decides what you are covered for and what is not covered?

Does it make you feel better thinking about the possibility of enormous debt from medical bills?

Do you ever wonder about paying your health care premiums should you lose your source of income?

Does it bother you that despite having the highest per capita expenditures (USA)in the world your average level of health for Americans is no better than that of Cuba?

[llama66]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

On the border between the US and Ontario, we see the "fruits" of socialized medicine every day. Hundreds of patients from Canada coming to the hospitals on the US side for treatment, surgery and whatever else they need. Why? The infamous waiting lists and inadequate medical providers in Canada.
Oh Canada...

that goes both way, in Canada we too see many Americans coming to Canada for those very fruits of socialized healthcare.

[ManifestDestiny]

llama66 llama66:

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

On the border between the US and Ontario, we see the "fruits" of socialized medicine every day. Hundreds of patients from Canada coming to the hospitals on the US side for treatment, surgery and whatever else they need. Why? The infamous waiting lists and inadequate medical providers in Canada.
Oh Canada...

that goes both way, in Canada we too see many Americans coming to Canada for those very fruits of socialized healthcare.

The border between Canada and the United States represents a boundary line for medical tourism, in which a country's residents travel elsewhere to seek health care that is more available or affordable.

Canadians visiting the U.S. to receive health care
Some residents of Canada travel to the United States because it provides the nearest facilty for their needs. Some do so on quality grounds or because of easier access.

According to a September 14, 2007, article from CTV News, Canadian Liberal MP Belinda Stronach went to the United States for breast cancer surgery in June 2007. Stronach's spokesperson Greg MacEachern was quoted in the article saying that the US was the best place to have this type of surgery done. Stronach paid for the surgery out of her own pocket. Prior to this incident, Stronach had stated in an interview that she was against two-tiered health care. Can you say Hypocrtie!!!!
When Robert Bourassa, the premier of Quebec, needed cancer treatment, he went to the US to get it.
In 2007, it was reported that Canada sent scores of pregnant women to the US to give birth. In 2007 a woman from Calgary who was pregnant with quadruplets was sent to Great Falls, Montana to give birth. An article on this incident states, "There was no room at any other Canadian neonatal intensive care unit."
Champion figure skater Audrey Williams needed a hip replacement. Even though she waited two years and suffered in pain, she still did not get the surgery, because the waiting list was so long. So she went to the US and spent her own money to get the surgery.
A January 19, 2008, article in The Globe And Mail states, "More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here. Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care."
US citizens visiting Canada to receive health care
On the other hand, some US citizens travel to Canada for health-care related reasons:

Many US citizens purchase prescription drugs from Canada, either over the Internet or by traveling there to buy them in person, because drug prices in Canada are substantially lower than in the US; this cross-border purchasing has been estimated at $1 billion annually.
At least one Canadian entrepreneur is beckoning US residents to Canada for simple surgeries, such as knee and hip replacements. However, the article does not cite any actual patients who have responded to his offer.
Because medical marijuana is legal in Canada but illegal in most of the US, many US citizens suffering from cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, and glaucoma have traveled to Canada for medical treatment. One of those is Steve Kubby, the Libertarian Party's 1998 candidate for governor of California, who is suffering from adrenal cancer. Recent legal changes such as Proposition 215 may decrease this type of medical tourism from California only.

From wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_h ... ealth_care

[llama66]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

We have many people who are dying because they can't get simple medical help. There are other problems that people have that are much more complicated. Up north they can get treated, in many cases down here your rooked.

The Canadian system works fine for minor problems, but danger lies ahead as baby boomers age and more serious illnesses afflict them. Call it "Canadazation," the myth of high-quality, "free" care. Its real costs in human suffering are ones that U.S. proponents don't want you to know about.

you don't know what you are talking about, your just another yank who's terrified of socialization. you'd rather have Americans die in droves than admit there is a problem and seek a non-made in America solution. a really good portion of the worlds population has grasped that Health Care is a right and not a privilege, only the United States fails to get this, and as long as there are closed minded people like your self you never will get it.

[Scape]

I've got to give it to you MD, you have more spine on this issue then the entire democratic senatorial body combined. They are clearly in the pocket of big pharma and the health care industry but let's be frank here private health care has its own version of wait lists in terms of no coverage. Let's take the example of MJ and his private doctor. He got the best treatment money could buy and still died at 50 because of Oxycontin and Demerol. His own money killed him and that doctor is taken out of circulation treating only one person when in a single day that doctor could have been doing rounds and treating hundreds of people in the same day and actually saving peoples lives.

Here’s the problem. As long as the health insurance industry is permitted to be the primary paymaster, the cost of medical care will continue to soar, not least because the insurance industry is so concerned about minimizing its own outlays that it is forcing the system to devote nearly 30% of every health care dollar spent to administrative costs (compared to 3-4 percent for Medicare, and even less for single-payer systems like Canada’s). That’s true whether there is a so-called “public option” government-run health insurance plan or not. Note that 30 percent of America’s $2.5-trillion health care bill per year is $750 billion a year, a sum which does absolutely nothing to make a single person more healthy or less ill. Even if one were to assume that the lion’s share of those administrative expenses were only for the private funded portion of America’s health care system, and for Medicare, the state-run but partly federally-funded portion that is famous for its paperwork mess, and the uninsured, who also consume a lot of paperwork when they do get treated at hospitals under mandated free-care provisions of at the expense of local governments, we’d be talking about 30% of $1.5 trillion, or about $450 billion going to administrative costs every year—still a staggering sum.

[llama66]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

llama66 llama66:

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

On the border between the US and Ontario, we see the "fruits" of socialized medicine every day. Hundreds of patients from Canada coming to the hospitals on the US side for treatment, surgery and whatever else they need. Why? The infamous waiting lists and inadequate medical providers in Canada.
Oh Canada...

that goes both way, in Canada we too see many Americans coming to Canada for those very fruits of socialized healthcare.

The border between Canada and the United States represents a boundary line for medical tourism, in which a country's residents travel elsewhere to seek health care that is more available or affordable.

Canadians visiting the U.S. to receive health care
Some residents of Canada travel to the United States because it provides the nearest facilty for their needs. Some do so on quality grounds or because of easier access.

According to a September 14, 2007, article from CTV News, Canadian Liberal MP Belinda Stronach went to the United States for breast cancer surgery in June 2007. Stronach's spokesperson Greg MacEachern was quoted in the article saying that the US was the best place to have this type of surgery done. Stronach paid for the surgery out of her own pocket. Prior to this incident, Stronach had stated in an interview that she was against two-tiered health care. Can you say Hypocrtie!!!!
When Robert Bourassa, the premier of Quebec, needed cancer treatment, he went to the US to get it.
In 2007, it was reported that Canada sent scores of pregnant women to the US to give birth. In 2007 a woman from Calgary who was pregnant with quadruplets was sent to Great Falls, Montana to give birth. An article on this incident states, "There was no room at any other Canadian neonatal intensive care unit."
Champion figure skater Audrey Williams needed a hip replacement. Even though she waited two years and suffered in pain, she still did not get the surgery, because the waiting list was so long. So she went to the US and spent her own money to get the surgery.
A January 19, 2008, article in The Globe And Mail states, "More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here. Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care."
US citizens visiting Canada to receive health care
On the other hand, some US citizens travel to Canada for health-care related reasons:

Many US citizens purchase prescription drugs from Canada, either over the Internet or by traveling there to buy them in person, because drug prices in Canada are substantially lower than in the US; this cross-border purchasing has been estimated at $1 billion annually.
At least one Canadian entrepreneur is beckoning US residents to Canada for simple surgeries, such as knee and hip replacements. However, the article does not cite any actual patients who have responded to his offer.
Because medical marijuana is legal in Canada but illegal in most of the US, many US citizens suffering from cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, and glaucoma have traveled to Canada for medical treatment. One of those is Steve Kubby, the Libertarian Party's 1998 candidate for governor of California, who is suffering from adrenal cancer. Recent legal changes such as Proposition 215 may decrease this type of medical tourism from California only.

From wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_h ... ealth_care

all that is fantastic. I had a Lateral Ligament Reconstruction procedure and two arthroscopic procedures in February of this year. I waited 2 weeks, mind you I had WCB expedite it, saving me a stunning 6 months wait. then in late February I suffered a moderate Pulmonary Embolism, and had to go to the hospital, I walked in to the Emergency and saw a nurse, I was admitted almost immediately, I had a CT scan and they found the embolism, they told me I might have to spend as much as a week in the hospital. They started me on Tinzaparin, and I spent the night in ER on a bed, then I was moved up to the CCU, all during this time I felt I was being cared for, I never once thought about cost to my self. I was released after 3 days as my INR had stabilized and there was little chance of another DVT happening.

Why do rich people have procedures done in the USA because they dont want to wait. Socialization is not evil and scary, its the natural progression of society.

[Chagrin]

Man, you all are jumping at MD like a starving wolf. Jesus, don't triple team the guy. That's just dishonorable.

[Scape]

Medicare, the health program for the elderly and the disabled, and Medicaid, the federally and state-funded program that funds medical care for the poor, together cost some $850 billion a year. Add to that the $150 billion that hospitals and local governments spend annually to cover the uninsured poor who don’t qualify for Medicaid, and the $50 billion the federal government spends for veterans’ care. That’s just over $1 trillion in government spending to cover the health care of roughly half the population of the United States.

The rest rely on private insurance, some of it paid for by employers, some direct pay, either as our share of the cost of company plans (growing every year), or as the deductible and co-pay portions of medical bills. That privately funded medical care costs about $1.5 trillion a year—50% more than the government spends on the medical care for a roughly equal number of people. If you do the math, it turns out that who rely on the private sector are spending about $10,000 per person per year on health care, either directly out of our own pockets, or in the form of money employers are paying into insurance plans for the same service that could otherwise be coming in the form of higher wages or lower-priced goods.

[ManifestDestiny]

My company that I own gladly pays 975 dollars a month for Health insurance for my family of 4 so it comes out to 250 per month per person. thats freakin cheap in my book. And I am not rich Im a blue collar working class person. And we have excelent care.

I dont want to change I like what I have. To hell with Obama the congress and the senate which have put an excemption for themselves with the current bill. Meaning they still get the old health care. the rest of us peons get the same shit like you guys!


I love how both of you have could care less that anyone of any type of POWER, OR WEALTH in Canada DOES NOT USE YOUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you want me to open my eyes!!!! your just mad cause I tell like it is and you tell it like it might be!

[Scape]

$975 per moth for 4. Wouldn't you rather pay $108 for the same thing or do you like throwing away money?

Speaking of which what do you think is more expensive: going to a clinic to visit the doctor, a visit to the local lab for test results or just going to the emergency? If you don't have cover guess which one is the only option and the most expensive. Do they get to choose their emergency Doctor then?

Local revenues are right now under the current system going to pay for uninsured care at local hospitals, state taxes pay for Medicaid for medical care for the poor and out-of-pocket payments by families for co-pays and deductibles, or for employee share of insurance premiums. If they can't pay they declare bankruptcy and of all the bankruptcy in the US medical claims are number 1 by a huge margin. How can you have liberty if your a slave to the system?

It is that waste that drives up your premium to what it is now and you know you have a bargain compared to most.