[Robair]

If bill c-15 didn't include marijuana, it would likely have passed already.

I don't think anybody (even Lemmy) is really opposed to locking up Meth dealers/manufacturers.

You need to separate them, (mary jane soft drug, nasty meth etc hard drugs) if you want to pass laws in line with those of the USA.

Apparently, the reason for the rise in production in Canada has been tougher laws in the US, pushing the illegal operations into Canada and Mexico.

[Lemmy]

Robair Robair:

If bill c-15 didn't include marijuana, it would likely have passed already.

I don't think anybody (even Lemmy) is really opposed to locking up Meth dealers/manufacturers.

You need to separate them, (mary jane soft drug, nasty meth etc hard drugs) if you want to pass laws in line with those of the USA.

Apparently, the reason for the rise in production in Canada has been tougher laws in the US, pushing the illegal operations into Canada and Mexico.

I'm not at all opposed to locking up meth dealers/manufacturers. But I do think we're a bunch of hypocrites when we think it's alright to export toxic pesticides to Brazil for profit but it's wrong to export Crystal Meth to the USA. That was my point. I sure as hell don't want that shit on OUR streets.

Manufacturers will always set up where they're least likely to be caught. If we were tougher on traffickers (and this has always been my position) they'd prefer to set up shop elsewhere.

[ridenrain]

Pesticide,uranium and even asbestos can be used safely.
So what is the safe prescription for meth?

[Zipperfish]

Probably the reason Canada is Number 1 is because of Vancouver. They basically run commercial-scale factories out here(as opposed to little back room labs). They get the stuff off of boats from China, the waterfront is run by organized crime, and the penalty (and risk of capture) for manufacturing ecstacy and other illicit drugs is, in my opinion, not an effective deterrant.

Holland went through the same thing.

While I'm a fan of legalizing pot, I don't think it's that easy to spread that all oterh drugs. I think you have to be retarded to support legalizing crystal meth or crack, but that's just my opinion. Ecstacy isn't very addictive, if it's addictive at all. Doesn't kill that many people either. You could probably legalize a pretty safe form of it. Personally, I'd be a lot more worreid about the growing crystal meth production in Canada (partiucarlly in BC). I hear that crystal meth is actually pushing out heroin as the drug of chouice even in heroin producing countries. And it is nasty stuff.

[romanP]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Pesticide,uranium and even asbestos can be used safely.
So what is the safe prescription for meth?

MDMA is not meth. MDMA is safe to use in moderation, is not addictive, and has legitimate clinical, psychiatric uses.

[Lemmy]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Pesticide,uranium and even asbestos can be used safely.
So what is the safe prescription for meth?

I don't know. I don't care. YOU'RE the one that said we shouldn't be producing asbestos and uranium, and I don't necessarily disagree. Assault rifles and dynamite and heroin and PCBs and all sorts of other dangerous shit CAN be used safely. But our track record, as a species, isn't very good in that respect. So, either we're too stupid to use dangerous products safely or we're not. But I'd rather make those choices, myself, than have the government do it for me.

[romanP]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I hear that crystal meth is actually pushing out heroin as the drug of chouice even in heroin producing countries. And it is nasty stuff.

Yep, meth is the number one drug is many Middle Eastern countries because it can be made in country, rather than being imported, from legally available substances.

[Robair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'm not at all opposed to locking up meth dealers/manufacturers. But I do think we're a bunch of hypocrites when we think it's alright to export toxic pesticides to Brazil for profit but it's wrong to export Crystal Meth to the USA. That was my point. I sure as hell don't want that shit on OUR streets.

Oh eye C...

missread your entire post then, sorry 'bout that.

[romanP]

Choban Choban:

Leagalization of Marijuana is one thing, ecstasy kills people, I've seen it happen.

Hundreds of times more people die every year from alcohol and alcohol-related accidents and violence than MDMA. Ecstasy, by comparison, is a very safe drug. I wouldn't recommend using it every day, but it's really not that dangerous.

[Zipperfish]

romanP romanP:

ridenrain ridenrain:

Pesticide,uranium and even asbestos can be used safely.
So what is the safe prescription for meth?

MDMA is not meth. MDMA is safe to use in moderation, is not addictive, and has legitimate clinical, psychiatric uses.

MDMA has many analogues. Some are safe, some aren't. PLus, when you buy a tablet of E, it isn't pure MDMA. It's cut with all kinds of other crap. I mean, it's not in the same league as crystal meth, but I wouldn't characterize it as safe.

[Choban]

romanP romanP:

Choban Choban:

Leagalization of Marijuana is one thing, ecstasy kills people, I've seen it happen.

Hundreds of times more people die every year from alcohol and alcohol-related accidents and violence than MDMA. Ecstasy, by comparison, is a very safe drug. I wouldn't recommend using it every day, but it's really not that dangerous.

Tell that to my best friend, who we planted in the ground at 14 years of age from 1 hit of EX. I agree with the alcohol statement you made except that in moderation and with responsability alcohol can be consumed safely. Any legalized drug would be taxed thus continuing a black market for it with no government controls on safe dosage.
While many people may say it's a relatively safe drug I disagree through personal experience.

[romanP]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

romanP romanP:

ridenrain ridenrain:

Pesticide,uranium and even asbestos can be used safely.
So what is the safe prescription for meth?

MDMA is not meth. MDMA is safe to use in moderation, is not addictive, and has legitimate clinical, psychiatric uses.

MDMA has many analogues. Some are safe, some aren't. PLus, when you buy a tablet of E, it isn't pure MDMA. It's cut with all kinds of other crap. I mean, it's not in the same league as crystal meth, but I wouldn't characterize it as safe.

Sometimes you can get pure, medical-grade MDMA. Usually MDMA is cut with a bit of speed, though. There can be other things cut with it too, but it's usually just a bit of speed. If you don't do it often or with other random drugs, like a lot of ravers do, it won't hurt you. There are still far fewer deaths from ecstasy use than there are from alcohol.

[Brenda]

No drug is safe...

[romanP]

Choban Choban:

romanP romanP:

Choban Choban:

Leagalization of Marijuana is one thing, ecstasy kills people, I've seen it happen.

Hundreds of times more people die every year from alcohol and alcohol-related accidents and violence than MDMA. Ecstasy, by comparison, is a very safe drug. I wouldn't recommend using it every day, but it's really not that dangerous.

Tell that to my best friend, who we planted in the ground at 14 years of age from 1 hit of EX. I agree with the alcohol statement you made except that in moderation and with responsability alcohol can be consumed safely. Any legalized drug would be taxed thus continuing a black market for it with no government controls on safe dosage.
While many people may say it's a relatively safe drug I disagree through personal experience.

The government can't control alcohol consumption either. You can kill yourself in 15mins with too much liquor, and "too much" isn't very much for an average sized person. Chugging down 20oz of 80 proof liquor will kill you easily.

[Choban]

Agreed Roman, Though my statement in regards to alcohol consumption was that moderate responsable alcohol use doesn't kill people whereas my friend took 1 single hit of EX and died, so the moderation debate doesn't apply. Leagalizing the drug and taxing it would not eliminate the black market for it where kids will still buy cut and mixed doses with no idea of what they are getting for cheaper than the govenment supply