[Brenda]

I bet he will attempt to change the law or constitution on that one. All you need is a majority!

[RUEZ]

Brenda Brenda:

It's about state schools, not about private schools or private businesses... Don't forget that in a country like Turkey, headscarfs (let alone burqa's) are not allowed in public buildings.

So? Who decided that religious apparell isn't appropriate? What about young girls wearing skimpy outfits? It's a slippery slope when we start banning things because we don't like them.

[Brenda]

Talking about skimpy outfits, the school my kids attend does not allow spaghetti tops or skirts without shorts. That is obviously a schooldistrict thing, or at least a school thing... They do not allow peanuts and peanut related items either.

My youngest daughter's new teacher does not allow hair in front of the face, so they need a hairband or a ponytail. So much for freedom, eh?

[Gunnair]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Now if only Harper would follow suit and ban the boob burqua in Canada. Free the breasts!

Welcome back.

[herbie]

A little cultural enlightenment is needed.
We have to explain that here, you cover up UGLY. Toss out a couple bag-over-the-head jokes, etc.

[KorbenDeck]

I think Freedom of Religion in Canada should be removed from the Charter of Rights and Freedom. It is being used now to bring try and bring religious law into Canada, plus that freedom is many times overlooked when it involves a Christian vs a minority. Look at how many Christian priest or churches rights were ignored when they voiced opposition to gay marriage or were forced to preform gay marriage.

$1:

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

It needs to be changed to simply freedom of conscience. Having your own spiritual beliefs can be protected in the charter as freedom of conscience, thought, belief, opinion and expression. Religious gatherings as freedom of peaceful assembly. Religion doesn’t need to be and should not be recognized anymore than that. Doing so is just redundant and gives the oppressive tendencies of organized religion that much more power.

[Biblesmasher]

Meh...freedom means freedom. Not free until someone gets offended. Let them look like idiot beekeepers, its their right. But yes if they need to be identified by the cops or in court, off it comes.

[Zipperfish]

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

I think Freedom of Religion in Canada should be removed from the Charter of Rights and Freedom. It is being used now to bring try and bring religious law into Canada, plus that freedom is many times overlooked when it involves a Christian vs a minority. Look at how many Christian priest or churches rights were ignored when they voiced opposition to gay marriage or were forced to preform gay marriage.

$1:

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

It needs to be changed to simply freedom of conscience. Having your own spiritual beliefs can be protected in the charter as freedom of conscience, thought, belief, opinion and expression. Religious gatherings as freedom of peaceful assembly. Religion doesn’t need to be and should not be recognized anymore than that. Doing so is just redundant and gives the oppressive tendencies of organized religion that much more power.

Freedom of concscinece, freedom of thought, freedom of belief all already exist in teh Charter. So what does freedom of religion do? Nothing but grabt special rights to those people who have opted to join one of the big religions. If you belong to one of those you can wear a funny hat or carry a knife or dress your wife in a potato sack.

I couldn't agree more. Freedom of religion should be expunged from the Charter. Good to hear someone else say it. People who worship Christ or Allah should be on the same legal footing as those who worship the flying spaghetti monster.

[Lemmy]

No one ever expects the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!

[martin14]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Not sure I agree with this, however, I will use to demonstrate that France sometimes has a hell of a lot more balls than Canada and the US.

I agree with the sentiment, but not with the banning. If they want to wear it for religious purposes they should have the right. If it's really about a secular society why stop at burkas? Why not ban turbans, and those religious knives? What about crosses on a necklace?

All these things are banned in the public school system right now in France.

Before condemning these things outright, it is worth to remember the
difference in demographics between France and Canada.

Their linguistic and cultural clashes are much bigger than in Canada,
because of the different makeup of the country. Their constitution is also
different, not as strong emphasis on individuality in Europe.

When I visited, I didnt find anyone who objected to the
school laws, I'm sure not many will object to restricting the burqa either.

[RUEZ]

martin14 martin14:

All these things are banned in the public school system right now in France.

Before condemning these things outright, it is worth to remember the
difference in demographics between France and Canada.

I'm glad I live in Canada.

[EyeBrock]

martin14 martin14:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Not sure I agree with this, however, I will use to demonstrate that France sometimes has a hell of a lot more balls than Canada and the US.

I agree with the sentiment, but not with the banning. If they want to wear it for religious purposes they should have the right. If it's really about a secular society why stop at burkas? Why not ban turbans, and those religious knives? What about crosses on a necklace?

All these things are banned in the public school system right now in France.

Before condemning these things outright, it is worth to remember the
difference in demographics between France and Canada.

Their linguistic and cultural clashes are much bigger than in Canada,
because of the different makeup of the country. Their constitution is also
different, not as strong emphasis on individuality in Europe.

When I visited, I didnt find anyone who objected to the
school laws, I'm sure not many will object to restricting the burqa either.

There is also a very long history of legislated secularism in France, going back to the Revolution and the power that the Catholic Church used to have.

French secularism is something ingrained very deeply on the Gallic psyche and that should be taken into account when considering Sarkozy's comments.

Besides the rioting Algerians, Sarkozy is only expressing what 90% of the French people say behind closed doors anyway, there is a significant anti-muslim backlash growing in Europe and we saw that in the recent crop of neo-nazi MEP’s elected.

I’m sure it will help him out in the polls

[Bacardi4206]

It's great France is trying to be moral about Woman's rights but this isn't freedom. People should be allowed to follow there religion and wear reliigous things. That's pretty much like muslims countries disallowing tourists or citizens to wear those necklaces with the cross on them.

I think instead of banning burkas that they just make it known that any woman who is subjected to have to wear one against her will can take her husband or family to court as its against human rights.

However despite the fact many muslims who subjected to harsh ways in there own country and bring all that over here. That some families and husbands force there wives or daughters to still wear one against there will. It is to my understanding that some muslim woman do want to wear one for reliogus purposes so who are we to tell them they can't?

[Brenda]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

It's great France is trying to be moral about Woman's rights but this isn't freedom. People should be allowed to follow there religion and wear reliigous things. That's pretty much like muslims countries disallowing tourists or citizens to wear those necklaces with the cross on them.

Excuse me, but... in the UAE, I cannot walk on the streets NOT accompanied by a male (not even as a tourist), I am supposed to cover my shoulders and arms, AND I can not be alone in a room with a man that is not my husband. Why is that?

$1:

I think instead of banning burkas that they just make it known that any woman who is subjected to have to wear one against her will can take her husband or family to court as its against human rights.

And come back home and be killed by your father, fil, brother or husband. Ah no, thanks.

$1:

However despite the fact many muslims who subjected to harsh ways in there own country and bring all that over here. That some families and husbands force there wives or daughters to still wear one against there will. It is to my understanding that some muslim woman do want to wear one for reliogus purposes so who are we to tell them they can't?

They do. And they can do so in their own homes, as far as I am concerned, but keep that shit out of my kids schools, government buildings, passport pics, and even grocerie stores. It is pretty scary working nightshifts, and at 3 am, some black veiled whatever walks into your store...

[Bacardi4206]

Brenda Brenda:

Excuse me, but... in the UAE, I cannot walk on the streets NOT accompanied by a male (not even as a tourist), I am supposed to cover my shoulders and arms, AND I can not be alone in a room with a man that is not my husband. Why is that?

Excuse me, but... you don't live in the UAE. You live in a country that is proud of the freedoms you do got and tries to promote those freedoms. You are allowed to wear whatever you want which as of lately for most woman appears the exact opposite of a burka but hey, as a guy I am definetly not complaining. The UAE has a lot of issues, expecially regarding woman rights so heres a little tip. Don't take a trip to the UAE. However as a country who likes all the freedoms we got and is proud of it, why would we degrade ourselves in taking away freedoms just because we dislike a religion that the people belong to. Btw I was making a example regarding the thing you quoted me for.

$1:

And come back home and be killed by your father, fil, brother or husband. Ah no, thanks.

That's so different compared to any form of family abuse? How many abusive non-muslim husbands are there or fathers, etc. Yet so many woman can escape that way of life. Why exactly is that different just because the specific woman belongs to a muslim family?

$1:

They do. And they can do so in their own homes, as far as I am concerned, but keep that shit out of my kids schools, government buildings, passport pics, and even grocerie stores. It is pretty scary working nightshifts, and at 3 am, some black veiled whatever walks into your store...

[/quote]

That sounds more or less like muslimphobia. I can subscribe a pill for you if you wish? I won't deny that I was a little sceptical of muslims before. I mean the whole terrorist shit was just a shocking experience when your country is so use to war not spilling in your own streets. However to think every muslim is capable of blowing up airplanes or that ever muslim in a burka or tuban is a dangerous suspect is just ridiculous. That is the kind of a mindset (which a lot of people have now) that we need to get away from. You want to hate terrorists (who happen to be muslim) than nobody is stopping you. Infact I will join you on that but no matter how fucked up some of the beliefs there are in islam or the practices they do regarding those beliefs such as stoning women who sleep with other men who aren't there husbands or for money or just being seen with another man having a cup of coffee. It's completly fucked up but regardless there is no way Canada's morals is going to decade just because some muslims go to your kids school or shop at your work.

I have muslims who live across the street from me and there a pretty nice family. Infact the mom (who wears a burka) is friends with my mom.