[Gunnair]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

I thought methadone was issued to heroin users?

It is and the government pays for it.

So my guess would be that it's cheaper to buy heroin than methadone since you don't actually have to pay a pharmacutical company to produce it.

All you have to do is make a phone call to Bogata and bingo you've got your treatment plan on the plane in an hour.

Could be a secret plan to help Afghan farmers...

[novachick]

I lost a friend a year ago March to drug addiction. Her death was a result of an overdose of crack ( injected ) and methadone. So while one part of me says NO DAMN WAY , why as a tax payer should I pay for this. Another part of me that knows my friend the addict. Knows the likely hood of them stopping in minimal and pills versus injecting will save many lives. That person is mother/father, son/daughter, friend. To those that don't know them they only see The Addict. To the ones that love them , they see the good person , the loving mom, trapped inside the storm.

[Gunnair]

novachick novachick:

I lost a friend a year ago March to drug addiction. Her death was a result of an overdose of crack ( injected ) and methadone. So while one part of me says NO DAMN WAY , why as a tax payer should I pay for this. Another part of me that knows my friend the addict. Knows the likely hood of them stopping in minimal and pills versus injecting will save many lives. That person is mother/father, son/daughter, friend. To those that don't know them they only see The Addict. To the ones that love them , they see the good person , the loving mom, trapped inside the storm.

Frankly, I'd far rather see a compulsary program that isolates and treats the person through the period of removing the addiction while preparing them for reintroduction into society with job and copiong skills. It may sound barbaric, but I see it as no more barbaric than the legislated right to kill themselves with drugs that some want tax payers to foot the bill for.

[ridenrain]

novachick: My sympathies.
It must be brutal to see these people dying slowly over the years without the ability to do anything to save them. We used to be able to intitutionalize these people for their own safety but now their rights trump their safety.

[novachick]

Gunnair Gunnair:

novachick novachick:

I lost a friend a year ago March to drug addiction. Her death was a result of an overdose of crack ( injected ) and methadone. So while one part of me says NO DAMN WAY , why as a tax payer should I pay for this. Another part of me that knows my friend the addict. Knows the likely hood of them stopping in minimal and pills versus injecting will save many lives. That person is mother/father, son/daughter, friend. To those that don't know them they only see The Addict. To the ones that love them , they see the good person , the loving mom, trapped inside the storm.

Frankly, I'd far rather see a compulsary program that isolates and treats the person through the period of removing the addiction while preparing them for reintroduction into society with job and copiong skills. It may sound barbaric, but I see it as no more barbaric than the legislated right to kill themselves with drugs that some want tax payers to foot the bill for.

You make an excellent point. I think I am too jaded by watching her addiction and subsequent death, that when someone says rehabilitation , I'm pessimistic. I saw her detox so many damn times and start again. The odds of actual life long rehabilitation are slim ( I forget the actual statistics). Pills versus injection will prolong their life, I'm not even sure that's the kindest thing for the addict.

[novachick]

ridenrain ridenrain:

novachick: My sympathies.
It must be brutal to see these people dying slowly over the years without the ability to do anything to save them. We used to be able to intitutionalize these people for their own safety but now their rights trump their safety.

Thank you.

It is such a futile feeling. Yes, I tried to admit her once and they wouldn't let me. Her pain in wrestling her demons , I have no words to describe it. She is at peace now, for that I am thankful.

[Gunnair]

novachick novachick:

ridenrain ridenrain:

novachick: My sympathies.
It must be brutal to see these people dying slowly over the years without the ability to do anything to save them. We used to be able to intitutionalize these people for their own safety but now their rights trump their safety.

Thank you.

It is such a futile feeling. Yes, I tried to admit her once and they wouldn't let me. Her pain in wrestling her demons , I have no words to describe it. She is at peace now, for that I am thankful.

It is a damned shame. There's no guarentee that detox and treatment will work, hence I understand the jaded feeling. Surely, however, even compulsary detox and treatment is better than helping them pull the trigger by giving them the stuff free. It might save some crime, but the end will be the same.

[novachick]

Gunnair Gunnair:

novachick novachick:

ridenrain ridenrain:

novachick: My sympathies.
It must be brutal to see these people dying slowly over the years without the ability to do anything to save them. We used to be able to intitutionalize these people for their own safety but now their rights trump their safety.

Thank you.

It is such a futile feeling. Yes, I tried to admit her once and they wouldn't let me. Her pain in wrestling her demons , I have no words to describe it. She is at peace now, for that I am thankful.

It is a damned shame. There's no guarentee that detox and treatment will work, hence I understand the jaded feeling. Surely, however, even compulsary detox and treatment is better than helping them pull the trigger by giving them the stuff free. It might save some crime, but the end will be the same.

I think compulsory detox and treatment should definitely be a part of the plan. Some will be saved in that. The rest is an equation of longevity of life from pill vs needle, and crime. The other thing I question is the effectiveness of this. The one thing I know an addict wants more,more more. A government regulated heroin pill will likely only be enough to keep them from going into the worst of detox. Hard core users will likely take the pill for the free ride , them hit the streets for more. Sitting here thinking about it as hard for me as it is to say this. I don't think I can support the governments action in this. I think the money involved would be better served going to education, health care, law enforcement. I'm not sure I'm making a lot of sense here. It's hard when heart is waging war with head.

[Gunnair]

novachick novachick:

Gunnair Gunnair:

novachick novachick:

Thank you.

It is such a futile feeling. Yes, I tried to admit her once and they wouldn't let me. Her pain in wrestling her demons , I have no words to describe it. She is at peace now, for that I am thankful.

It is a damned shame. There's no guarentee that detox and treatment will work, hence I understand the jaded feeling. Surely, however, even compulsary detox and treatment is better than helping them pull the trigger by giving them the stuff free. It might save some crime, but the end will be the same.

I think compulsory detox and treatment should definitely be a part of the plan. Some will be saved in that. The rest is an equation of longevity of life from pill vs needle, and crime. The other thing I question is the effectiveness of this. The one thing I know an addict wants more,more more. A government regulated heroin pill will likely only be enough to keep them from going into the worst of detox. Hard core users will likely take the pill for the free ride , them hit the streets for more. Sitting here thinking about it as hard for me as it is to say this. I don't think I can support the governments action in this. I think the money involved would be better served going to education, health care, law enforcement. I'm not sure I'm making a lot of sense here. It's hard when heart is waging war with head.

Hey, fair enough. I think anything is better then simply pumping them up with drugs for free. At some point, regardless of the Charter, someone has to conclude that person A can no longer make rational choices, and is choosing harm over safety. If a government cannot intervene at that point, then what good are they?

[romanP]

ridenrain ridenrain:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Ironically ridenrain once claimed he'd love to see a party run under the banner of allowing heroin users to use legally (paraphrased). I guess he got his wish.

Only if the addicts could be taken from the ghetos and held untill they are clean. The emphisis must be on cleaning up the adicts and not enabling them.

These addicts are a huge problem and if we can't cure them, we need to at least get them off the streets and away from the public.

You can't cure an addict. Ask any smoker that has "quit." All it would take is one cigarette and they'd be chainsmoking all over again.

[Gunnair]

romanP romanP:

ridenrain ridenrain:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Ironically ridenrain once claimed he'd love to see a party run under the banner of allowing heroin users to use legally (paraphrased). I guess he got his wish.

Only if the addicts could be taken from the ghetos and held untill they are clean. The emphisis must be on cleaning up the adicts and not enabling them.

These addicts are a huge problem and if we can't cure them, we need to at least get them off the streets and away from the public.

You can't cure an addict. Ask any smoker that has "quit." All it would take is one cigarette and they'd be chainsmoking all over again.

Are you an ex-smoker?

[romanP]

novachick novachick:

I lost a friend a year ago March to drug addiction. Her death was a result of an overdose of crack ( injected ) and methadone. So while one part of me says NO DAMN WAY , why as a tax payer should I pay for this. Another part of me that knows my friend the addict. Knows the likely hood of them stopping in minimal and pills versus injecting will save many lives. That person is mother/father, son/daughter, friend. To those that don't know them they only see The Addict. To the ones that love them , they see the good person , the loving mom, trapped inside the storm.

If your friend had had access to a safe injection clinic, she might still be alive. Whether it's pills or needles, having a trained medical professional around while you're overdosing will far more likely save your life than if it happens in an alley beside a dumpster, or on your couch.

[romanP]

Gunnair Gunnair:

novachick novachick:

I lost a friend a year ago March to drug addiction. Her death was a result of an overdose of crack ( injected ) and methadone. So while one part of me says NO DAMN WAY , why as a tax payer should I pay for this. Another part of me that knows my friend the addict. Knows the likely hood of them stopping in minimal and pills versus injecting will save many lives. That person is mother/father, son/daughter, friend. To those that don't know them they only see The Addict. To the ones that love them , they see the good person , the loving mom, trapped inside the storm.

Frankly, I'd far rather see a compulsary program that isolates and treats the person through the period of removing the addiction while preparing them for reintroduction into society with job and copiong skills. It may sound barbaric, but I see it as no more barbaric than the legislated right to kill themselves with drugs that some want tax payers to foot the bill for.

They won't kill themselves with drugs if they have access to people who can help them use their drugs safely.

[romanP]

novachick novachick:

You make an excellent point. I think I am too jaded by watching her addiction and subsequent death, that when someone says rehabilitation , I'm pessimistic. I saw her detox so many damn times and start again. The odds of actual life long rehabilitation are slim ( I forget the actual statistics). Pills versus injection will prolong their life, I'm not even sure that's the kindest thing for the addict.

The thing about pills is that you can crush them, boil them in some water and inject them anyway. Some people will do this just because they prefer to inject their drugs. Because of this, a safe injection clinic is key.

[TattoodGirl]

There are two perfectly good alternatives for Heroin users on the market, yet they are hard to access. In the DTES, the three clinics are at capacity and cannot take any other clients...those do not have access to Methadone maintenance. Subutex is a highly effective treatment, yet it is held up in government redtape. Now we will be doing trials with giving prescription heroin, I dont understand this when we have TWO highly effective replacements. Use one of the two and with intensive treatment and ongoing supports, people will be successful.

I know full well...if Heroin was available in scrip form when I was a kid, I would still be using it. We need more accessibility not heroin.