[RUEZ]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Ruez, we have no alternative to lying Libs or lying Tories. The political landscape in Canada at this moment is shite.

I really like having derby on ignore. It's like nextdoors leaf-blower is silenced.

I agree, this isn't how I like to see the government run. However I don't think anyone predicted the mess the world would be in right now. Had nothing changed, we may have seen the Conservatives with a majority government right now. However they got hit with something they were unprepared for and not equipped to handle. I doubt any party would have handled it better.

[DerbyX]

Proculation Proculation:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Proculation Proculation:

The problem is that we have no alternative. The liberals will do pretty much the same thing (just look at EI) and I cannot think what would happen with the NDP. We are screwed.

No they wouldn't have. Thats simply conjecture. The partisan cons are the ones attacking both the libs and NDP by the very method they would have avoided a massive deficit, taxes. A carbon tax, GST hike, corporate tax increase. All were put forth as methods to spend yet avoid a massive deficit.

Every time the cons screw up they say "ya but the Libs would have done the same". Why is it then that the Liberals can't point to the Cons and say that everything they did post 93 the cons would have?

If you want to blame the Liberals/NDP for this massive deficit instead of the true culprits then by all means let Harper and the CPC stand aside and allow them to govern so you can blame them properly.

The fact is that Harper and Harper alone is responsible for the budget he put together just as the Libs were. Anybody saying otherwise is simply deluding themselves.

Don't get me wrong: I know Harper is responsible. What I say is that we don't have a fiscally responsible party that the conservative party was supposed to be.

You think so. Where exactly where the Liberals financially irresponsible? From 93 on they were the most financially responsible party we have ever had. Iggy is talking about taxes because a financially responsible leader would be willing to admit that perhaps a tax increase is in order.

Its fundamentally unfair to simply ascribe the deficit to either the Libs or NDP as something "they would have done anyway" when you simply have no reason to believe that.

[OnTheIce]

Federal Conservatives and the other Provinces are all running major deficits.

Is is a sign of the times or that our PM and all our Premiere's are incompetent?

P.S. Notice how all the Provinces and Feds predictions for deficit's have been off? Notice how Don Drummond, the guy behind this report was also incorrect?

[Proculation]

DerbyX DerbyX:

RUEZ RUEZ:

DerbyX DerbyX:

The fact is that Harper and Harper alone is responsible for the budget he put together just as the Libs were. Anybody saying otherwise is simply lying.

Why is there no coalition government?

Irrelevant. I've already explained that the coalition had tax measures in place to avoid a massive deficit. They would have also approached any bailouts differently due to the NDP factor.

All it amounts to is Harper reneged entirely on his no deficit promise and handed in the biggest red ink budget of all time and the only left for the partisan right wingers who consider themselves as the natural economic governing party is to codify themselves with the false belief that everybody else would have done it also.

The Liberals believe in a Keynesian doctrine (government spending in times of recession). Saying they would not have done the same is partisan BS. Look at the US right now with Obama. Keynesian economics is unsustainable but, it buys votes.

And taxing more in a recession is complete non-sense: the demand is already going down. You don't want it more down by taxing more. And even less by taxing more the corporations !! You will end up with less money (see, Laffer curve). You want them to invest, not taxing them more.

[DerbyX]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Ya that's what you want when thousands of people are losing their jobs, more taxes. Why not run a deficit when you have to until the country is back on it's feet and people can afford to pay more to pay off the debt?

Why stop at 50 billion? Why not make it 100 bilion? Why don't we make it an even trillion?

Yes, I expect a financial leader to think that we might have to raise taxes to avoid a massive deficit because all that does is dig us in deeper and make any recovery that much longer and harder.

[kenmore]

RUEZ RUEZ:

I think this was the coalition economic plan.

And you call this statement a debate?

[kenmore]

/ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090602/business/federal_deficit
Ottawa digging a $172-billion hole in deficits, TD Bank says

Hmmm how are we going to debate this?

[Robair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Is is a sign of the times or that our PM and all our Premiere's are incompetent?

Sign of the times. Cutting the GST and increasing spending when the economy was red hot, that's what points out our PMs incompitence.

[kenmore]

Perhaps the liberals would spend during a recession, but they would protect the middle class and the poor. There is nothing wrong with wanting to treat all Canadians from coast to coast equally and esp with EI. Other than supporting big business like GM and Chrysler, harper has not released any money that was promised. And people in Ontario esp who have lost jobs are waiting for EI. its time for harper to go!

[OnTheIce]

Robair Robair:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Is is a sign of the times or that our PM and all our Premiere's are incompetent?

Sign of the times. Cutting the GST and increasing spending when the economy was red hot, that's what points out our PMs incompitence.

So how do you explain the rest of the Provinces with different political leadership, all running deficits with the exception of Manitoba?

Are all these Premieres incompetent too?

Would leaving the GST at 7% left us with a balanced budget?

The answer to both is a resounding NO.

[DerbyX]

Proculation Proculation:

The Liberals believe in a Keynesian doctrine (government spending in times of recession). Saying they would not have done the same is partisan BS. Look at the US right now with Obama. Keynesian economics is unsustainable but, it buys votes.

And taxing more in a recession is complete non-sense: the demand is already going down. You don't want it more than by taxing more. And even less by taxing more the corporations !! You will end up with less money (see, Laffer curve). You want them to invest, not taxing them more.

No. The Liberals believe in a balanced doctrine and taxes are a part of that. If they aren't then why not simply eliminate taxes altogether?

Again, you simply see no way out so its only fair to blame everybody. Why then are the Liberals held only to blame for what happened post 93? Every party would have done what they did then so they can't be blamed.

Its wrong to think that raising taxes in a recession is wrong. Look at 93. Did the Liberals eliminate (or rather shift) the GST like they promised? No, because that would have bankrupted us. They kept the taxes high because thats what was required and they cut spending during that recession.

As for the Laffer curver:

$1:

The Laffer Curve itself does not say whether a tax cut will raise or lower revenues. Revenue responses to a tax rate change will depend upon the tax system in place, the time period being considered, the ease of movement into underground activities, the level of tax rates already in place, the prevalence of legal and accounting-driven tax loopholes, and the proclivities of the productive factors. If the existing tax rate is too high--in the "prohibitive range" shown above--then a tax-rate cut would result in increased tax revenues. The economic effect of the tax cut would outweigh the arithmetic effect of the tax cut.

The fact is that its not just Harpers current actions that are kiling us but also his ill-advised actions from the past 2 years that the Libs would not have made the mistake to do that brought us here.

In short if you think that the Libs would be no better then by all means vote Liberal and prove your theory. After all we already know Harper isn't up to the task.

[DerbyX]

Robair Robair:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Is is a sign of the times or that our PM and all our Premiere's are incompetent?

Sign of the times. Cutting the GST and increasing spending when the economy was red hot, that's what points out our PMs incompitence.

Agreed. The cons who keep saying that the other parties would do no better simply will not acknowledge all the mistakes Harper has made that have brought us into this massive hole of red ink.

[kenmore]

Remember it took Chrétien 14 ya 14 yrs to dig us out of the debt Mulroney left us in.. huge debt... When Chrétien left we had a huge surplus... then ... well we all know who blew that away don't we?

[RUEZ]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Federal Conservatives and the other Provinces are all running major deficits.

Is is a sign of the times or that our PM and all our Premiere's are incompetent?

P.S. Notice how all the Provinces and Feds predictions for deficit's have been off? Notice how Don Drummond, the guy behind this report was also incorrect?

The BC Liberals predicted a few hundred million in deficit. After the election it is now predicted to be over 2 billion.

[RUEZ]

kenmore kenmore:

RUEZ RUEZ:

I think this was the coalition economic plan.

And you call this statement a debate?

I call it a statement.